Subject: Re: Tlaib censured
This is my last post on the subject as we are not going to agree on anything.

I'm sorry to hear that. I've enjoyed our discussions. And I generally believe that the value of conversations like this is not in trying to get another person to agree with you, but to gain a better understanding of their perspectives. Even if it doesn't change your mind, you can at least get a more accurate sense of where they're coming from.

One of the things that I've tried over and over to emphasize is that Israel does not believe that their current actions will lead to a good outcome. Just that they will lead to the least bad outcome. If this is the end of our conversation, my regret is that you don't seem to be picking up on that distinction.

In your latest post, you note that the bombs are a great recruiting tool for Hamas. You're absolutely right. I don't think many in Israel would disagree.

But what I would love if you would consider - if you would just think about - is what the alternative looks like. If Israel doesn't significantly attack Hamas, what does that look like for Hamas' recruiting?

I think the answer is obvious. If Hamas was able to successfully pull of 10/7 without being all-but-destroyed by Israel, it is the greatest recruiting tool for Hamas that could ever exist. Much better than the bombs. Hamas will have demonstrated to the Palestinians - and to the greater Arab world - that it could kill a thousand Jews, force Israel to de facto cede territory within the Green Line to create a buffer zone, reallocate their military focus away from the WB, and put the Palestinian conflict back on the world's top priority list.....without paying a price? They'd be the biggest rock stars in the Middle East. You couldn't stop people from lining up to join Hamas.

Remember, to a first approximation the Palestinian people (and the many Arab states as well) have been torn between two conflicting approaches to Israel. One approach = embodied by the late-era PLO, the PA, and Fatah - is to pursue an accommodation with the existence of Israel through peaceful means. The other approach chooses violence - Hamas (and others like the PIJ, the PLFP, Hizbollah, etc.) argue that there will never be a Palestinian state except through violence, and that violence can make the Palestinian state the only state and drive the Jews into the sea.

If Hamas is able to commit 10/7 and survive, they will have proven that their approach works. That you can commit any level of violence against the Israelis, and it will neither spread into a wider war nor result in your organization being destroyed. They will have proven that human shields work. Proof of concept to the Iranians and Russians, and all the Arabs in the region, that the Hamas approach can and will work. With enough time, resources, and volunteers you can make people in Israel feel so unsafe that they can't continue the Israeli project - and Israel will never, never be able to push back hard enough to make you stop.

That's what Israel is trying to accomplish. They know there's no way to prosecute this war without killing Palestinian civilians, and that killing Palestinian civilians is an effective recruiting tool. They're not idiots, and they're not naive. They're trying to make sure that Hamas doesn't become the most effective terrorist group in the history of fighting Israel, knowing what that would entail.