Subject: Re: Can't They Just Leave Women Alone?
And if you are the manager of a gym, and have women complaining about a man in their locker room, how exactly do you have access to the medical treatments and close friends and family you suggest would support this "un-complicated" determination?

Oh, you wouldn't. But that's not really the point I was making. Rather, I was pointing out that claiming to be trans when you're not won't hold up to after-the-fact scrutiny, because people leave a pretty obvious "trail" of what they really believe about their gender. As you pointed out, in many jurisdictions (and all trans-tolerant jurisdictions) people are given lots of choices in how to identify in government paperwork, application forms, and a host of other contexts. It's a simple matter to figure out after the fact if someone's pretending to be trans to "get their jollies" in a locker room.

Which is what makes it really unlikely that anyone would do that. It's the same theory behind security cameras. Security cameras (typically) don't interrupt misdeeds and crimes while they're happening. But they make it so much easier to prove up those misdeeds and crimes after the fact that they have a deterrent effect.

As for this:

Despite how eloquently albaby argues for the poor downtrodden trans community, biological women have rights too that should be acknowledged, respected and protected.

I appreciate that you think I'm eloquent - and I certainly acknowledge that cis women also have rights. Indeed, the specific situation we've been talking about - communal nudity in locker rooms - is one of the tougher situations. There's a conflict of rights (or interests, if you will) among different groups. Some cis women want to be free from the possibility of seeing a penis. Trans women want to be free from the increased risk of assault that comes from having to use the men's locker room.

One obvious solution, of course, is to stop having communal nudity. And I think that's where we'll end up moving towards. Communal nudity in athletic facilities is actually really exclusionary, even apart from trans issues. There's many, many people who have shied away from athletics because they didn't want to be seen naked - especially in school-age situations. I suspect far more people have been made uncomfortable by being seen naked than by seeing something they didn't want to. Phasing out communal nudity is probably a great step towards making these facilities more accessible for everyone.

But that will take a long time. In the meantime, you have to balance two competing claims. Cis women are concerned about the possibility of seeing a penis (and presumably some cis men don't want to see female parts); trans women are concerned about being at greater risk of assault if forced to use the mens' room. Both have merit. That makes for a tough policy decision - which is why advocates for both groups will typically use the language of "rights" as a way of asserting their claim is inarguable.