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Rep. Greg Stanton @RepGregStanton

1/ Buried in Trump's flurry of Executive Orders is a line that halts funding from the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.

That means withholding funds for projects like the I-10 expansion, investments in Sky Harbor and Mesa Gateway Airports and upgrades to our water infrastructure.

(and it looks like they want to review line by line and approve what can be disbursed.) Doesn't this remind you of Reagan's line item veto?

THE WHITE HOUSE
Sec. 7. Terminating the Green New Deal. (a) All agencies shall immediately pause the disbursement of funds appropriated through the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 (Public Law 117-169) or the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (Public Law 117- 58), including but not limited to funds for electric vehicle charging stations made available through the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Formula Program and the Charging and Fueling Infrastructure Discretionary Grant Program, and shall review their processes, policies, and programs for issuing grants, loans, contracts, or any other financial disbursements of such appropriated funds for consistency with the law and the policy outlined in section 2 of this order. Within 90 days of the date of this order, all agency heads shall submit a report to the Director of the NEC and Director of OMB that details the findings of this review, including recommendations to enhance their alignment with the policy set forth in section 2. No funds identified in this subsection (a) shall be disbursed by a given agency until the Director of OMB and Assistant to the President for Economic Policy have determined that such disbursements are consistent with any review recommendations they have chosen to adopt.

Terminating the Green New Deal.

Maybe a way for Trump to reward friends and punish perceived enemies?

>>Terminating the Green New Deal.<<

Maybe a way for Trump to reward friends and punish perceived enemies? - ges

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Is a way Trump is recognizing the will of the majority of regular people who oppose the GND.

Is a way Trump is recognizing the will of the majority of regular people who oppose the GND.
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The Liberal 15% Oligarchy wants to use GND to hurt the rest of the country.

Now, "Democracy"! has mandated that America cancel the GND.

Once again, Democracy for the Left - is an inconvenient truth.

Maybe a way for Trump to reward friends and punish perceived enemies?

Well Musk is going to want those charging stations. :) So maybe you have to apply at the bitcoin station for what you want, or some other way to show your respect for King T. That verbiage sure sounds like they want to pick and choose what gets funded out of that act. So you grift and then the Supremes toss out your pickin' ability, everything gets funded, but you still have your grift. A win for T.

Well Musk is going to want those charging stations.

I don't think he cares. He's moved past that.

Is a way Trump is recognizing the will of the majority of regular people who oppose the GND.

Mike, the Green New Deal has always been popular and a majority of the people supported it in 2021 and in still did in 2024. Stop telling falsehoods.

https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2024/2/6/five...

SNIP In more recent congressional sessions, lawmakers have introduced a suite of new Green New Deal bills, covering issues ranging from schools to housing. These Green New Deal bills all enjoy strong majority support among American voters. After reading descriptions of the following proposals, a majority of voters support the Green New Deal agenda (65%), the Green New Deal for Public Housing (67%), the Green New Deal for Public Schools (68%), the Green New Deal for Cities (63%), and the Green New Deal for Health (68%). The results align closely with national support for these Green New Deal bills found in previous Data for Progress polling conducted in 2021 and 2022. SNIP

https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2024/06/27/how...


SNIP What’s behind declines in support for wind and solar?

Declines in public support for renewable energy have been driven by Republicans and Republican-leaning independents, whose support started to fall sharply after President Joe Biden took office in early 2021.

64% of Republicans (2024) say they favor more solar panel farms, down from 84% in 2020.
56% of Republicans (2024) say they favor more wind turbine farms, a 19-point drop from 2020.

(Though it's declined the Republicans have always supported it.)


Over this same time period, views among Democrats and Democratic leaners on these measures are little changed, with large majorities continuing to support more wind and solar development.

In some cases, gaps between Republicans and Democrats over energy policy now approach the very wide partisan divides seen over the importance of climate change. SNIP

I don't think he cares. He's moved past that.

So is business is only part of the plate now? You think he'll stay preoccupied with influencing politics, or step right into becoming a major political player?

Mike, the Green New Deal

There's no such thing as the "Green New Deal". You are referring to the "Inflation Reduction Act", which did no such thing. (It actually increased inflation).

Declines in public support for renewable energy have been driven by Republicans and Republican-leaning independents, whose support started to fall sharply after President Joe Biden took office in early 2021.

Or maybe...it's because wind and solar involve sending scads of money to China. Or maybe because both make very little sense as primary power sources for the United States. Oh, sure each can serve a purpose as supplements here and there but there's no universe where a significant percentage of US households will be powered by solar panels from a central source.

Want solar panels? By all means put some on your roof. We plan on doing that in our property in Central Washington where the sun shines 300 days a year (it doesn't rain every day in all of Washington, which is in fact home to a lot of high desert). Windmills are horribly bad for power/acre, kill birds, screw up whales, aren't green in terms of the amount of carbon it takes to produce and maintain one, and don't work when the wind doesn't blow and have loads of trouble in the winter.

So is business is only part of the plate now? You think he'll stay preoccupied with influencing politics, or step right into becoming a major political player?

No. I think his business has moved past caring about charging networks.

Musk believes that his cars will be fully autonomous within a short amount of time - certainly shorter than any material construction on federally-funded charging stations. I expect he thinks that those charging stations will be useless for robotaxis that don't have a driver immediately, and quickly out of date once people need their charging to be fully automated rather than self-service.

So I doubt he cares all that much whether the chargers get built, since his business plan has moved past those kinds of public chargers being available.

So I doubt he cares all that much whether the chargers get built, since his business plan has moved past those kinds of public chargers being available.

Tesla wants people using Tesla chargers, that's much better for him and his business.

Tesla wants people using Tesla chargers, that's much better for him and his business.

Again, I don't think he cares any more. That used to be an important way to differentiate his cars from competitors. But public chargers are irrelevant to robotaxis. Self-service fast chargers may quickly become obsolete for autonomous cars. So having public funding to expand the charging network is something he probably thinks is mostly irrelevant to where his business is today.

After reading descriptions of the following proposals, a majority of voters support....

That's the stuff that should always get your antennae twitching. If you can't get majority support from your respondents "after reading descriptions" of the items - descriptions that you get to write - then you're doing something insanely wrong.

For example, here's how the poll described the GND:

Some lawmakers are reintroducing the Green New Deal, a proposal modeled off of the 'New Deal' programs created by President Franklin D. Roosevelt during the Great Depression.

A Green New Deal would put tens of millions of people to work in good-paying, union jobs modernizing our infrastructure making it more resilient to extreme weather and slowing the pace of climate change. The Green New Deal would also center frontline communities who have been disproportionately impacted by climate change and pollution in decision- making and resource allocation. Do you support or oppose the Green New Deal?

That's not a description you use to measure existing public opinion about the GND. It's a description you use when you want to be sure you get a positive outcome for your poll.

Self-service fast chargers may quickly become obsolete for autonomous cars.

I'm not following you. All EVs need chargers.
Tesla's push is into Robotaxis, which presumably would still need chargers that would be publicly available as they won't always be able to return to home base.

Musk believes that his cars will be fully autonomous within a short amount of time - certainly shorter than any material construction on federally-funded charging stations. I expect he thinks that those charging stations will be useless for robotaxis that don't have a driver immediately, and quickly out of date once people need their charging to be fully automated rather than self-service.

So what will be developed is a charger that won't need a human. The car automatically drives to the right spot and the charger hooks itself up? I would think something like that, including accepted driverless cars would be 2035 and beyond. But you're right, he wouldn't care.

So having public funding to expand the charging network is something he probably thinks is mostly irrelevant to where his business is today.

He’s also more focused on going to Mars

I'm not following you. All EVs need chargers.
Tesla's push is into Robotaxis, which presumably would still need chargers that would be publicly available as they won't always be able to return to home base.

Robotaxis won't have a driver in the car. So they won't be able to use an "ordinary" charger. They'll need to go to a charger that either has an attendant to plug it in, or a charger that is automated so that it can plug itself in. Or charge wireless. None of the chargers that the federal program will build are likely to have those features.

Plus, I expect that a robotaxi will be returning to a home base at least as frequently as its charging cycle, if not more often. They're not likely to be driving more than 250 miles per day - and even if they were, they probably won't be going an entire day without being cleaned/tidied up at an off-peak time, allowing a quick charge.

Going off his public statements, Musk envisions a world where EV's and chargers will look very different in five years than they do today. So he probably doesn't give much of a rip about whether many new chargers get built in the next couple of years.

Well Musk is going to want those charging stations. :)

More likely those sweet AI subsidies that are being talked about.

Because the rich tech bros need more subsidies.

--Peter

There's no such thing as the "Green New Deal". You are referring to the "Inflation Reduction Act", which did no such thing. (It actually increased inflation).

No, Mike mentioned the Green New Deal and I gave him polls on the Green New Deal. Once again, you show you haven't read posts.

What are the Green New Deal principles for implementation?

SNIP The Inflation Reduction Act

The recently enacted Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) delivers hundreds of billions of dollars in funding
for key Green New Deal goals on climate action, clean energy, and environmental justice. Through
expanded and new tax credits, increased funding for existing programs, and brand new grant programs,
the IRA will deliver key resources to individuals, communities, schools, small businesses, and local and
state governments looking to enact Green New Deal solutions. The IRA contains $369 billion in public
spending for clean energy and climate justice, which is expected to unleash hundreds of billions more in
private investments. As of April 2023, since the enactment of the IRA, clean energy companies have
already announced projects representing $150 billion in investments, 18,000 new jobs, and $4.4 billion
in customer savings SNIP

So put away the pontiff and stop pontificating all over the board.

That's not a description you use to measure existing public opinion about the GND. It's a description you use when you want to be sure you get a positive outcome for your poll.

But I also posted a PEW poll which showed the decline from 2020 to 2024, so that buttresses the flaw in 2020 - shows PEW found relatively the same thing in 2020, and noted the decline to 2024, but it's still a majority.

The recently enacted Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) delivers hundreds of billions of dollars in funding
for key Green New Deal goals on climate action, clean energy, and environmental justice. Through
expanded and new tax credits, increased funding for existing programs, and brand new grant programs,
the IRA will deliver key resources to individuals, communities, schools, small businesses, and local and
state governments looking to enact Green New Deal solutions.

So...this is what I said. Thanks.

BTW, pumping loads of government money in an inflationary environment just...causes more inflation, which is what we saw.

Because the rich tech bros need more subsidies.

I get concerned when I see that.

The IRS brags about how effective it's collection system is, and their Dunn notice system is very effective and collects a lot of money. After that it's farmed out to in house collection agents. So at one point politicians were talking about privatizing the Dunn letter system. Great, you give give a company the address, amount, etc., they send out the Dun notice and get a percentage, and then give whatever is not collected back to the IRS. That's like handing a business free money, when you already have a system that does it cheaply without the fee. But it's hard to convince people that the government does some things effectively. I t wasn't privatized.

Then they had a pilot program for privatizing collection efforts after the Dunn letters. The upshot was people's (taxpayer;s) right were violated frequently and sometimes very badly - even after the IRS trained the private company's employees in taxpayer rights. The collections weren't as good and taxpayer's rights were violated.

There's a lot of people trying to make money off the government, and Musk is successful at it.

But I also posted a PEW poll which showed the decline from 2020 to 2024, so that buttresses the flaw in 2020 - shows PEW found relatively the same thing in 2020, and noted the decline to 2024, but it's still a majority.

I think the portions of the PEW poll that you're referring to are the ones that simply asked whether people wanted more wind/solar or not (most of the poll focused on wind/solar). That's not the same as the Green New Deal, which is a vastly more expansive set of government policies (technically it's not even expressing support for government doing anything at all). Most of the policies of the GND weren't included in the PEW poll at all.
The few parts of the poll that dealt with matters other than wind/solar energy contradict the GND - a large majority of respondents do not want rules that would dramatically increase the share of electric cars, and a similarly large majority do not want the U.S. to phase out fossil fuels entirely rather than a mix of fossil and renewable energy.

So yes - generally, people would like it if there was more solar/wind in the country than not. Which is probably why those types of subsidies have actually made in into law over the years (opposed as they might be from time to time). But that's not the same thing as supporting the Green New Deal.

The car automatically drives to the right spot and the charger hooks itself up?

One solution is wireless charging - much like the way most phones charge these days. Simply park in the right spot over the charging pad and charging begins. Yes, this isn't going to be as fast as plug in charging, but it is probably good enough for overnight charging when demand for robotaxis would be low.

Or you could use the Roomba model, with a charging station that the robotaxi drives into and has some automatic alignment features. That might be able to coexist with existing chargers - have a charger with the automatic connector and a cable that a human can plug in. Handles either kind of EV.

The basic tech exists today, so it's more a matter of manufacturing and installation, along with site location.

--Peter

Ahh, my memory is that Republicans support chunks of the Green New Deal, but it has low priority for them, whereas for progressives (not me), it's much higher. Yes the GND is expansive but isn't it normal to be that way in the policy area? It's a big glittering object that might occur in a sci fi novel, but we have reality - we are not going to do enough and we'll go past the 2.5 degree warming and no one knows how far.

I'm really not familiar with everything that's in the GND. It's like a Progressive Project 2025. Doesn't it range out into single payer healthcare too? I've given up on our health care system - just trying to deal with it. Back to VITA. :)

Albaby...as we have discussed in the past, "robotaxis" are a long way from realization. I saw a Frontline (or maybe NOVA) program a few years ago. We think of driving as easy, but it's really an enormously complicated activity. In perfect conditions, sure...we can do it now. But our brains do a lot of processing behind the scenes that a robo-car simply can't do reasonably and reliably. Simple things, like realizing a person with a pizza box on his shoulder is still a person (so don't run him over).

I can see long-haul trucking...you drive a load to a staging area by a freeway, transfer it to a robo-truck that takes it to another staging area, where it recharges, and any cargo needed at that point is off-loaded to a human-driven truck to get it to -for example- your local Costco. There are very few complications in that sort of driving (other than weather). But city streets, with pizza guys and mopeds and jaywalkers, and red-light-runners? They can't do it reliably. And we're a long way from them being able to.

You'll recall I was all gung-ho, until I saw the program and realized just how complex it really is just to go to the grocery.

Albaby...as we have discussed in the past, "robotaxis" are a long way from realization.

That's what I think, too. But Musk seems very confident that they're actually coming much sooner than that. Which may be why he's not using any of his influence to do anything to preserve the charging network federal spending.

Or it may be nothing that complicated - he might just not think that federal money for more public charging stations is material to Tesla's prospects, even if even if robotaxis are far off. It does seem like it would have only a trivial impact on Tesla's sales, relative to all the other factors involved.

"...our brains do a lot of processing behind the scenes that a robo-car simply can't do reasonably and reliably. Simple things, like realizing a person with a pizza box on his shoulder is still a person (so don't run him over)."

Yep.

Also, harassing Waymo cars has become a sort of sport in some San Francisco communities.
Also, the Waymo cars have become targets for criminals who can easily stop a Waymo leaving the unsuspecting passenger relatively helpless. The car has no algorithm to discern the meaning of an obstacle, or take evasive action. It stops. It goes.

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