Post New

...you may be a morally and emotionally broken person of evil indifference, if...

...you laugh with a former president and leader of the republican party for mocking an 82-year-old for having his skull fractured with a hammer by a Trump-inspired conspiracy nut when his plan to kidnap Nancy Pelosi failed, encouraging even further violence...

...you're okay with a former president and leader of the republican party intentionally dropping the word "motherf*cker" into his speech last night...

...you're okay with a former president and leader of the republican party saying people in Ohio smell, like he did last night...

...you're okay with a former president and leader of the republican party who is on record for saying those who died in battle for our country were "suckers" and "losers"...

...you're okay with the fact that a former president and leader of the republican party repeated knowingly false claims of election fraud to travel to the Capitol on January 6 and then lied to them that the vice president had the authority to and might alter election results...

...you're okay with the fact that a former president and leader of the republican party exploited the attack on the Capitol to further his conspiracy to obstruct the certification of the election results.


In addition to his cruelty and callousness, he is a flaming moron.

Last night, he said the way to prevent forest fires is by preventative watering: "We can actually dampen our forests with water that costs us nothing, that will come pouring down from the North," Trump insisted. "If you had dampened floors, you wouldn't have forest fires."

The crowd laughed at his cruelty and applauded his insanity.

So, congratulations: you may not be a Nazi but if you're in the Trump Cult, you're a plain old bad person.

So, congratulations: you may not be a Nazi but if you're in the Trump Cult, you're a plain old bad person.

You can see how Russia got the way it is: through a coalition of corrupt crony oligarchs and fools in the general populace. And that is what Trumpism will deliver for us if it succeeds.

...you're okay with the fact that a former president and leader of the republican party repeated knowingly false claims of election fraud to travel to the Capitol on January 6 and then lied to them that the vice president had the authority to and might alter election results...

...you're okay with the fact that a former president and leader of the republican party exploited the attack on the Capitol to further his conspiracy to obstruct the certification of the election results.

On Jan 6 everyone went to the Capitol picnic, which was interrupted by mobs of Antifa and FBI agents along with Homeland Security. Nothing was going on, but it never had a chance of succeeding anyway so that completely eliminates any possibility of any wrongdoing - on account a because. It's not a democracy anyway, it's a republic.

The crowd laughed at his cruelty and applauded his insanity.

Yep, lol..


https://twitter.com/alx/status/1707869806043582758...

...you may be a morally and emotionally broken person of evil indifference, if...

This is a really good way to alienate people like me. And you succeeded. Your list is a mixed bag at best and I cannot be outraged at all the items. Therefore you are holier than me and I might vote for Trump just to get away from the constant left wing outrage. It is as bad as the constant right wing outrage.
Trump is an ass and says outrageous things to get publicity. And succeeds thanks to people like you.
Get this through your thin skin. Insulting the 82 yo and encouraging Jan 6 is serious stuff. Saying MF on stage or talking about wetting forest floor or calling Ohioans smelly (if that's what he did) is not. Learn to discriminate in your outrage. Otherwise it's childish and pointless.
I am not excusing Trump's a-holery. I am saying life is short and I have learned to ignore the small stuff.
Biden says stupid senile stuff almost constantly. Who cares?
Trump lowered my taxes and made the stock market go up. Did not start any wars. Did not actually sexually harrass a young intern unlike that great Democrat, Bill Clinton.
What matters to people like me is how these big guys affect us. Because it's exhausting to listen to their random utterances constantly to decide what our emotional reaction should be. Ain't nobody but you has time for that.

knighttof3: Trump is an ass and says outrageous things to get publicity. ... Learn to discriminate in your outrage. Otherwise it's childish and pointless. ... Biden says stupid senile stuff almost constantly.

There's a difference between a verbal gaffe and spewing bizarre, irrational nonsense. Your suggestion that "Biden says stupid senile stuff almost constantly" is complete nonsense. Here's a new 20-minute interview of Biden by John Harwood and Biden sounds just fine: https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/170846477788896...

And while you're right that Trump rambling about windmills killing whales, electric motors in boats electrocuting boaters, preventing forest fires by dampening forest floors, and the Continental Army capturing airports is inconsequential, they are pointed out for comparison because people like you falsely suggest that "Biden says stupid senile stuff almost constantly".


knighttof3: I am not excusing Trump's a-holery. I am saying life is short and I have learned to ignore the small stuff.

Fair enough. Tell me, where do you draw the line?

Evidently Trump calling the soldiers suckers and losers didn't cross that line.

Or Trump suggesting a military officer should be executed didn't cross that line.

Or Trump claiming that the election was rigged even before election day didn't cross that line.

Or Trump leaning on Georgia election officials to overturn a state election didn't cross that line.

Or Trump attacking Georgia poll workers by name so that they could not leave their houses because of death threats didn't cross the line.

Or Trump conspiring to put forward fake electors didn't cross that line.

Or Trump standing by while the Capitol was under siege without making any effort to stop the violence didn't cross the line.

Or Trump saying the Constitution should be suspended didn't cross that line.

Or Trump saying he will replace independent career government workers with those who will pledge loyalty to him did not cross that line.

Or Trump taking some of the nation's most guarded top secret documents and refusing to return them under subpoena didn't cross the line.

I mean, you said it right here: "I might vote for Trump just to get away from the constant left wing outrage."

So maybe there is no line.


knighttof3: Trump lowered my taxes and made the stock market go up. Did not start any wars. Did not actually sexually harrass [sic] a young intern unlike that great Democrat, Bill Clinton.

I suspect almost everyone posting here is financially secure. For me, I'd rather have better roads, bridges, and mass transit, water infrastructure, and expanded broadband -- accomplishments that Trump promised throughout his four years in office but never achieved -- than a little more money in my pocket. And improved care for Veterans. Plus a CHIPS and Science Act that makes America less dependent on foreign nations. And a strong NATO.

Biden didn't start any wars, either. Nor did he sexually harass a young intern (I'm not sure why you even brought these up with respect to Biden).

Trump did have a court declare him a rapist.

Trump did have a court declare him, his sons and others, and his organization liable for fraud.

And he is currently under indictment for 91 felonies.


knighttof3: What matters to people like me is how these big guys affect us.

Me, too; although it seems we have very different ways of measuring that.

I am saying life is short and I have learned to ignore the small stuff.

Yes, it is. That's why I retired early. Both 1poorlady and I had some health scares, and we realized we better get to living before we are unable to. (Four weeks of vacation per year -which is what my company allowed- was far too restrictive.) So we assessed our finances, ran some simulators (one at FIDO, another one I got from "retireearlyhomepage", and another I forgot now), and when it showed we could do it, we put in our notices.

But...

For democracy to work, the people have to be informed and involved (i.e. at the minimum, show up to vote). So, while it was easy and a bit fun to ridicule Trump about "cofefe" (or whatever the hell he said), I agree that it was "small stuff". Jan 6 was NOT small stuff. Trying to fix the election was NOT small stuff. I can't speak for anyone else, but that is what I'm outraged about. However, it appears the justice system is in motion, so I'm content to let the wheels turn, and let the system work.

And what is alarming is that people seem to shrug-off the parallels between the rise of MAGA and the rise of the NAZI party. By no means identical, and different systems were in place. But, as they say, history is rhyming. If you know that history, you should probably be a bit worried. It may peter-out, but so far it hasn't. Without going back to old posts, some of the characteristics included appeal to a mythic past that never really existed, blame of "the other", claims that "only I can fix it", vilifying media that doesn't support you, encouraging your followers to do bad things, etc. The list posted previously was spot-on, and Trump ticked several of those line items. The playbook is the playbook, no matter who uses it (left or right). And that playbook is contrary to having a democracy and peaceful transfer of power.

So I don't care if he cheats on Melania, or what "cofefe" meant, or what Baron had for lunch yesterday, or any of that. I do care about actions that subvert (or attempt to subvert) the democratic process.

I might vote for Trump just to get away from the constant left wing outrage.

I don't think that's gonna work: if Trump gets elected again, the "left wing outrage" will only increase ten fold.

: if Trump gets elected again, the "left wing outrage" will only increase ten fold.

Yep. And they riot, and burn, and people like the OP (who've long since gone 'round the bend) will attempt to justify it.

And in so doing will really show us who the totalitarians among us really are.

K3: Trump lowered my taxes and made the stock market go up. Did not start any wars.

The stock market recovery was almost as good as Obama's, so it seems he didn't interfere with the recovery, which is a plus. Lowering your taxes is admirable, but that increased the national debt by 7 trillion, and at that point, we weren't facing an economic disaster like Obama was handed. I think by the time Obama became President a lot of his increase n debt was already baked into the cake - the GFC was bad, ya know, we wanted a soft landing. You can come to your own determination on what caused the GFC, but I do remember Haynes being touted heavily in newspapers, and then overnight the Keynesian's came out of the woodwork. Greenspan had been the man.

I never vote on resentments, but it might be because all of the insults thrown around about liberals, the left, anyone left of some point that gets further right each year, are mostly preposterous. I don't take it personally. My brother is a MAGA breathing fellow who believes 60 to 80 federal agents were at Jan 6 instigating it all. Adios.

My brother is a MAGA breathing fellow who believes 60 to 80 federal agents were at Jan 6 instigating it all. Adios. - Lasody

--------------

Instigating it all? Well not all. 60 to 80 agents present, who knows, certainly not zero. There appears to some degree of corruption at work despite despite much the liberals want to think it was 100% due to Trump. You brother may be wrong about "all" but you are wrong to just grant that it was zero. Why did the Jan 6 committee destroy all their investigative records? That appears to be a violation of the records act but no DOJ investigation. wonder why. Anyway, we will never know and can argue about it forever.

knightof3: "What matters to people like me is how these big guys affect me


To sum up your position, you're okay with Trump pandering to the MAGA culture warriors because " FYIGM ".

bighairymike: Why did the Jan 6 committee destroy all their investigative records? That appears to be a violation of the records act but no DOJ investigation. wonder why.

Why? Because it never happened.

See if you can follow along.

The Republican congressman overseeing the investigation into the committee's work has not said any records were destroyed, and there have been no reputable reports of such destruction. What Rep. Barry Loudermilk of Georgia did say is that some video recordings are missing, and he does not know what happened to them.

The suggestion records were destroyed is an urban myth. Or, if you prefer, a lie, posted on Facebook and shared on other social media platforms by former president Trump and by Lauren Boebert.

Loudermilk wrote that some recordings were not archived or transferred to the Committee on House Administration. Written transcripts of them were provided, however.

House Rule VII outlines the requirements for preserving House records at the end of each two-year term, and a footnote to Thompson's response to Loudermilk outlines why Thompson says those written transcripts comply with that rule.

In short, more bullsh!t from Trump swallowed by his gullible cult.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023...

and at that point, we weren't facing an economic disaster like Obama was handed. I think by the time Obama became President a lot of his increase n debt was already baked into the cake - the GFC was bad, ya know, we wanted a soft landing. You can come to your own determination on what caused the GFC

This is true. I liked Obama for his achievements - killing bin Laden, getting US out of the GFC mess, most of all Obamacare. I don't understand the visceral hatred right wingers have for him. For alm his socialist talk he was the right kind of moderate president (again unlike Bill who undid Glass Steagal).

Yes, I attribute all good and bad things that happen during the presidency (and can be provably attributed to human agency, so not things lije natural disasters) to the president. Because the buck stops there.

So I would vote for a third term for Obama but that's not my choice. My choice is between a senile hairsniffer and a juvenile scofflaw. The juvenile one will be better for my pocketbook. Some of his supporters are a little scary though.

Instigating it all? Well not all. 60 to 80 agents present, who knows, certainly not zero. There appears to some degree of corruption at work despite despite much the liberals want to think it was 100% due to Trump. You brother may be wrong about "all" but you are wrong to just grant that it was zero. Why did the Jan 6 committee destroy all their investigative records? That appears to be a violation of the records act but no DOJ investigation. wonder why. Anyway, we will never know and can argue about it forever.

Amazing!
No need to argue, trust me.
Would you like to buy a bridge in Brooklyn cheap?

To sum up your position, you're okay with Trump pandering to the MAGA culture warriors because " FYIGM ".

Shaming or guilting people for not getting on your specific high horse is not a way to convince them.
Dems need to sell why their idiot is better. Else the undesirables in the basket will choose the idiot with better promises.

Anybody who is interested can review the January 6 investigation materials here:
https://www.govinfo.gov/collection/january-6th-com...

This seems to be one of those lies that gets told enough it becomes truth. I know it was repeated on Fox news, but mostly as innuendo that could be mistaken as truth. It is a bit like the recent "truth" that the US government paid Iran to release US citizens. What the US did is release a hold on Iranian money held in Korea... which is substantially different than the impression the right wing machine was spreading. It is this kind of journalism (and it does happen on both sides) that creates the impression there is a HUGE divide between the two sides, when in reality neither side correctly perceives the other.

What the US did is release a hold on Iranian money held in Korea... which is substantially different than the impression the right wing machine was spreading - alan81

------------

Just speaking for myself, from the very beginning it was clear to me the ransom money was not coming from the US Treasury. But the source of the funds was secondary to the fact that Iran now had $4B to use for sponsoring terrorism and developing nuclear weapons both of which it is well known that Iran is already doing. The cost to humanity will be far far greater than the four hostages we recovered. It was a poor calculation on the part of the Biden Admin and demonstrates to other adversaries that hostage taking pays.

BHM: You brother may be wrong about "all" but you are wrong to just grant that it was zero.

Please never put words in my mouth. I never said zero. I don't know what fallacy that is, but I don't like it.

We know there was one former FBI agent there. My position is that until you can support it with better than hot air, it's fabricated, and we are talking the stuff of conspiracy theories. Support it with something sold and I'll perk up, take another look, and be happy to do so. My forays have yielded that the Wash DC Police Chief may be the source of this. He has stated there were 60 to 80 agents there, mixed FBI and Homeland Security. But I question this as he was 1. Not in a position to know. As far as I know he didn't go down and watch the picnic close up. And how could he or his crew identify agent? I'm open here, but not to BS. I mean this is the same man who declares there was a system wide intelligence failure about Jan 6. There was enough prescience on the part of the FBI and Homeland Security to have 60-80 agents, but an intelligence failure, because - Deep State, The Biden Crime Family,...

There also has been some press on FBI Informants. Now this is logical. We want informants in crazy right wing groups. It's my understanding that Tarrio? (the head of Proud Boys) was also an informant. It's alleged there was one informant talking to his FBI handler during part of the Jan 6 uprising.

But BHM, the entire claim looks fabricated by the right ... and why? Because the right can't admit that some of you screwed up and went after our democracy? There's just huge piles of evidence that that is what happened Mike.

>>BHM: You brother may be wrong about "all" but you are wrong to just grant that it was zero.

Please never put words in my mouth. I never said zero. I don't know what fallacy that is, but I don't like it. - Lapsody

---------------

Sorry.

When you used 60 to 80 as an example of what a MAGA breathing fellow thinks, I assumed you were implying there were no FBI instigators in the Jan 6 crowd.

Perhaps if your brother said there were 5 to 10 FBI instigators there, then you would not be using him as an example. I don't know the real number but at least you appear to be agreeing it is non-zero.

No complaints about Glass-Steagall other than it was criticized as stifling the growth of the banks, and limiting their competitiveness on the world stage. Greenspan testified before Congress that the Federal Reserve Board supported Glass'Steagall repeal. There was a big movement going that direction with respected figures and groups backing it.

Ko3: My choice is between a senile hairsniffer and a juvenile scofflaw.

Well, he is old school, but I don't think he's senile - yet. :) But the juvenile scofflaw is much more than a bunch of parking tickets. He hurt people. Too many 'little" guys got burned. I may have a little in my pocket form the tax cuts, but not enough to merit the increase in debt. You could keep it, and not increase the debt by me. I'm that way. I know whatever I get is chicken feed compared to the top 10% or 1%. When I read about Agenda 47 or Project 2025 - I don't really want to go through that. Jan 6 and the 4 ongoing trials show me that Trump lacks good judgment. He is perfectly willing to do inane stupid things that put him in legal jeopardy facing jail time. He somehow thought it wouldn't come home, but it has. The softsell "scofflaw" doesn't seem to match the lies, deception, and criminal behavior pattern I see.

BHM: Perhaps if your brother said there were 5 to 10 FBI instigators there, then you would not be using him as an example.

You seem to have trouble with this. My brother's wife said that half the people there on Jan 6 were Federal agents. I told here there were 2 to 3000 people there. My brother chimed in with 60 to 80.

bighairymike: But the source of the funds was secondary to the fact that Iran now had $4B to use for sponsoring terrorism and developing nuclear weapons both of which it is well known that Iran is already doing.

First, Iran doesn't actually have the money. Qatar's central bank will oversee the funds and Iran will be permitted to use the money only for humanitarian purposes in accordance with U.S. sanctions and each transaction will be monitored by U.S. Treasury. According to the terms of the agreement, the U.S. could freeze the released funds again if Iran tried to spend the money in violation of U.S. sanctions.

But republicans said something on Fox so they must be right.

Now you're going to say, but Iran could just shift funds around and fool America. Well, sure, except Iran doesn't have any money and every transaction will still be monitored.

I guess we'll see.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iranian-preside...

First, Iran doesn't actually have the money. Qatar's central bank will oversee the funds and Iran will be permitted to use the money only for humanitarian purposes in accordance with U.S. sanctions and each transaction will be monitored by U.S. Treasury. According to the terms of the agreement, the U.S. could freeze the released funds again if Iran tried to spend the money in violation of U.S. sanctions.

Nobody is this naive. Okay, maybe some are. But I don't think that's the case here.

The money that Iran is getting might well go to "humanitarian needs". But that means that other cash they spend for that can go right to terrorism or nuke building. Thanks to Biden we now know what the going rate for kidnapping Americans is.

To be clear, everyone has a line they don't want their president to cross.
Even immoral materialists like me.
It is when the president is going to actually try to DO something he SAYS (a gaping chasm for Trump), or misusing his power. Trump is a big mouthed New Yorker who says six impossible things before breakfast. You have to know when to sit up and take notice vs when to call him a moron (or worse) and let it go.

My line is as arbitrary as yours. But I won't call you callous if you don't get on my high horse.

Below, Yes means he crossed my line, No means he did not. No doesn't mean it's acceptable behavior. Only that I don't care enough.



Evidently Trump calling the soldiers suckers and losers didn't cross that line.
No


Or Trump suggesting a military officer should be executed didn't cross that line.
I don't know the specifics so can't comment.

Or Trump claiming that the election was rigged even before election day didn't cross that line.
No

Or Trump leaning on Georgia election officials to overturn a state election didn't cross that line.
Yes <-- illegal too

Or Trump attacking Georgia poll workers by name so that they could not leave their houses because of death threats didn't cross the line.
Yes, 100%

Or Trump conspiring to put forward fake electors didn't cross that line.
Did he? I don't know

Or Trump standing by while the Capitol was under siege without making any effort to stop the violence didn't cross the line.
Yes. I kinda wish it had been more decisive with hundreds of attackers killed instead of just one. Would have settled the question once and for alk.

Or Trump saying the Constitution should be suspended didn't cross that line.
No

Or Trump saying he will replace independent career government workers with those who will pledge loyalty to him did not cross that line.
No

Or Trump taking some of the nation's most guarded top secret documents and refusing to return them under subpoena didn't cross the line.
Yes



Again, his wishful thinking out loud doesn't affect reality unless he has the power to do it. Or if he can inspire his supporters to do it and they can get the power.

And, if anything, they weren't instigators. They were conducting surveillance. "Instigators" would imply they encouraged it, which the right-wing blogosphere is trying to assert (i.e. it wasn't them and their sympathizers, it was the FBI).

And, if anything, they weren't instigators.
--------------------
Yes, Mike never seems to understand that.

BHM:Just speaking for myself, from the very beginning it was clear to me the ransom money was not coming from the US Treasury. Good.


But the source of the funds was secondary to the fact that Iran now had $4B to use for sponsoring terrorism and developing nuclear weapons both of which it is well known that Iran is already doing. Not so good.

While the treaty was criticized, it was working. Trump pulled out of the treaty because it was an Obama accomplishment. After a while Iran restarted it's program - a Trump accomplishment. Trump took us a step closer to a regime like Iran having nuclear weapon capabilities.


The cost to humanity will be far far greater than the four hostages we recovered. It was a poor calculation on the part of the Biden Admin and demonstrates to other adversaries that hostage taking pays.

Oh yes, here is the holier-than-thou attitude based on lies, untruths, half truths, innuendo - the whole smear, and when humanitarian fault lies with Trump. The fact is if we can induce them back into following the guidelines, that is a positive. The only thing that can tell is time. Trump backing out just to trash Obama was a failure.

The softsell "scofflaw" doesn't seem to match the lies, deception, and criminal behavior pattern I see.

To filch a line from Jerry McGuire.....

"You had me at rapist."

While the treaty was criticized, it was working.

Working...how?

Dope: Working...how?
---------------------
Google
After the Trump administration twice certified Iran's compliance in 2017, in May 2018 the United States withdrew from JCPOA as Trump pledged he would negotiate a better deal. Trump left office without fulfilling that pledge and analysts determined Iran had moved closer to developing a nuclear weapon since the American withdrawal.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_...(2017%E2%80%93present)

More failed Trump Promises.

Post New

US Policy FAQ

---

Contact Shrewd'm
Contact the developer of these message boards.