Post New

Note that every time a democrat says something about "muh democracy", you should start laughing. Because they have all the exhibitions of totalitarian actors.

Let's take Josh Shapiro. Since, as yours truly told you, many left wing democrats have issues with Da Joos his bio is being scrubbed.

For example. Shapiro, to his credit, served in the IDF. That's a plus for someone like me. For the democrat base? Not so much.

“Palestinians will not coexist peacefully,” Shapiro wrote. “They do not have the capabilities to establish their own homeland and make it successful even with the aid of Israel and the United States. They are too battle-minded to be able to establish a peaceful homeland of their own.”
https://www.newsweek.com/josh-shapiro-comments-pal...


This'll play well in Dearborn!

Totalitarians scrub history. Republicans respect it.

Dope1: Totalitarians scrub history. Republicans respect it.

J.D. Vance scrubbed his own name. At least twice.

And he scrubbed his Twitter account with an SOS pad, doing his darndest to scrub away that pesky claim that Trump could be "America's Hitler," among other anti-Trump remarks.

So nothing to say on the subject, noted.

Thanks!

Me, I'd be proud to have a VP who volunteered for the IDF.

FWIW, I'm pretty neutral on it. I'd prefer if it was the US military. Don't know the mechanics of how he ended up in the IDF. Perhaps similar to how Filipinos get into the US Navy?

In any event, I do respect that he was motivated to put himself in harm's way. If it was the USA, I'd mark that as a definite positive. A foreign military? Neutral. But I only speak for myself.

Totalitarians scrub history. Republicans respect it.

Like calling a violent insurrection legitimate political discourse?

Or how being a slave was good because you learned a trade?

To be fair, Republicans don’t scrub history. They re-write it.

To be fair, Republicans don’t scrub history. They re-write it.

LOL. You told a pair of lies just now.
One, nobody calls J6 anything other than what it was - riot. Lie #1.
Lie #2 was in mischaracterizing what the Florida books said, but I expect nothing less from the goob brigade.

Try again. With some thought this time.

This'll play well in Dearborn!

Totalitarians scrub history. Republicans respect it
*****

Dearborn was fine with Joe Lieberman.


Does Dearborn want to replace Shapiro with "We love Israel no matter what" Republicans?

I dont know the answer.

Does Dearborn want to replace Shapiro with "We love Israel no matter what" Republicans?

I dont know the answer.

I'm fine with them staying home.

And BTW, Harris still wins in November. Because of stuff like this:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elec...

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals reversed itself Thursday, allowing Arizonans again to register to vote in federal races without having to prove citizenship.

I don't know why libs here ever question what we say. We're literally right 99% of the time.

Let this sink in: you don't need to be a citizen to vote in Arizona. So there's one state for Harris. You didn't think they imported 10M illegal aliens just to give them free stuff, right? The democrats always do this stuff for a price and that price is their votes.

Let's hear it for the party of Muh Democracy!!

Wrong again...

Totalitarians scrub history. Republicans respect it.

The erstwhile Republican Party, now the Trump/MAGA party, lives in a world of lies and loony conspiracy nonsense. Trump makes up his own false history constantly.

Get out of the cult!

I don't know why libs here ever question what we say. We're literally right 99% of the time.

Let this sink in: you don't need to be a citizen to vote in Arizona.

We question it because you're wrong so often. Like now.

The ruling does not say you don't need to be a citizen to vote in Arizona. It is still illegal for non-citizens to vote in Arizona. It is still a crime for a non-citizen to vote in Arizona.

The ruling only says that Arizona can't require proof of citizenship at the time of registering to vote in federal elections. Because the National Voter Registration Act prohibits states from requiring proof of citizenship at the time of registering to vote in federal elections. Everywhere, BTW - not just in Arizona.

So again, let this sink in: you're wrong, and you do need to be a citizen to vote in federal elections in Arizona.

Beat me to the punch, albaby1.

Thank you for stating this succinctly and, of course, 100% correct.

How long will it take Dope to move the goalposts?

It is still a crime for a non-citizen to vote in Arizona.

Sigh. I don’t know if you’re being naive or deliberately obtuse.

Which is it?

Who counts the votes in Arizona? Stop hiding behind the literal reading of the law; your party has zero compunctions in violating it.

Sigh. I don’t know if you’re being naive or deliberately obtuse.

Which is it?

Neither. It's illegal to vote in Arizona as a non-citizen, just like it is everywhere else.

They just can't ask for proof of citizenship at time of registration - just like everywhere else. It's a federal law, it applies in every state, red or blue.

Stop hiding behind the literal reading of the law; your party has zero compunctions in violating it.

Ummmm - the law says what it says, Dope. It's illegal to vote in federal elections if you're not a citizen. In Arizona and everywhere else. We enforce that law the same way we enforce 99.9% of the laws - through punishment after the fact when someone violates it. There's no evidence that "my party" violates it any more than "your party" does - or that either party violates it very much at all.

If anyone did, it would be relatively simple to find out - the logs of who votes are public records, anyone can get them. And indeed, people do check them all the time - and when they do, they find that virtually every single person who votes was allowed to vote. Sometimes they don't check accurately, and they embarrass themselves, like Tucker Carlson did a few years back. But invariably, no matter who is doing the checking, they find that the people who actually vote are virtually all legally entitled to vote.

Move what goalposts?

Oh…you mean make an argument that you’re not comfortable addressing. Got it.

Neither. It's illegal to vote in Arizona as a non-citizen, just like it is everywhere else.

Okay, it’s the latter. Who cares what’s illegal when the Presidency is at stake? Especially when you know you’re going to lose and are al willing to swap your candidate at the 11th hour?

BTW, remind me - who said Biden would t be your nominee?

At any rate. It’s near impossible in this political environment to prove fraud. You yourself have argued on the role that “intent” plays ad nauseum here - and if some illegal thinks they can vote, then who’s punishing them in Katie Hobbs’ Arizona? The same kind of folks who will be looking the other way up here in Washington.

So relax. You guys have this covered. Pennsylvania’s early mail in vote plus Shapiro on the ticket nets Harris that state. The 9th circuit just gave you Arizona. That’s 2 down. IIRC you just need one of Michigan or Wisconsin now.

Hence the scrubbing of Shapiro’s bio.

Stop hiding behind the literal reading of the law; your party has zero compunctions in violating it.

You believe in and propagate lies.

There is no evidence that this is any kind of real problem.

Period.

How long will it take Dope to move the goalposts?

Two minutes.

I'm sorry, but that's just a stupid statement.

The legislature is controlled by Republicans. They ordered a recount in 2020. Biden still won.

Katie Hobbs isn't the head of a dictatorship.

Relax. I told you that illegals could vote in Arizona and you scoffed. Well, the 9th circuit just cleared the way for it.

So you’re good. Don’t pretend this isn’t what you want.

Don't tell me what I want.

And, no, the 9th Circuit has done no such thing. Voting is reserved for citizens only. By law. Not even permanent residents can vote.** You keep picking on AZ, but our legislature is Republican. Our last governor was Republican. A recount was authorized (shadily) in 2020, and Biden still won despite the Rep legislature not wanting it, and the company they hired not wanting it.

Give it up. You are as wrong as you've ever been. If you were right, the media would be in a frenzy. And rightly so.




**I knew an engineer from Scotland. He was told me that getting to vote in an American election wasn't worth giving up his Scottish passport. So -last I knew- he has been a permanent resident for over 30 years. Can't vote.

Voting is reserved for citizens only. By law.

How quaint. It’s never occurred to you why this was even being contested in the first place, has it? If it’s against the law that’s the end of it, right?

No. Probably not. That’s okay.

You’re going to get what you want.

I know why it is being contested (voter ID laws). Do you? (Hint: it has to do with poor people getting IDs, not allowing non-citizens to vote.)

And, again, don't effin' tell me what I want. I could make up all sorts of crap about you, but I don't. Show me the same courtesy.

). Do you? (Hint: it has to do with poor people getting IDs, not allowing non-citizens to vote.)

Right, nothing but altruism. No other reason.
<rolls eyes>

How quaint. It’s never occurred to you why this was even being contested in the first place, has it?

It’s never occurred to you that after 4 years of Republicans investigating alleged voter fraud, nothing has been found except for 3 Republicans voting for Trump twice. And none of the Republicans cheaters did a day of jail time.

Republicans brought over 60 voter fraud cases. They were brought in state courts, they were brought in federal courts, and they were brought before the Supreme Court. They were brought before judges appointed by Democrats and Republicans. They were brought by judges appointed by Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, and even by Trump.

Of all the cases, only 1 was successful. A PA case involving 500+ ballots postmarked before Election Day but received after Election Day. They were not allowed to be counted. And it had ZERO impact on the vote count because then PA AG Josh Shapiro (yes, that one) chose not to include them until the court ruled. Yes, Josh is smart, fair, and honest.

Even the conspiracy driven Republican-leaning Teenage Mutant vote counters recounting all AZ ballots found more votes for Joe Biden.

Frankly, I’m sick and tired of your whining that if you win it was fair but if you lose it wasn’t. Bull. Maybe if you gave up the bat chip crazy conspiracy theories and actually came up with a platform that Americans liked, you might win an election without resorting to lawsuits, voter suppression tactics, gerrymandering, and Republicans trying to vote twice.

A fish rots from its head and there is nothing more rotten in the Republican Party than its leaders.

Frankly, I’m sick and tired of your whining that if you win it was fair but if you lose it wasn’t. Bull.

It’s a function of how slimy your party is. A slime that permeates the entire apparatus.

Seeing somebody like you whine about policy is delicious. You take no policy positions other than fear. Fear is your policy.

Here’s a hint. That’s not policy.

It’s a function of how slimy your party is. A slime that permeates the entire apparatus.

Your leader, who you proudly support, has stolen money from a charity, is an adjudicated rapist, is a pathological liar, is a 34 count felon, and incited an insurrection resulting in multiple deaths. Simple facts.

It’s no wonder that all you see is slime. Your drowning in it.

If it’s against the law that’s the end of it, right? - Dope

--------------------

Not nearly. As we have learned, if there is no enforcement, then for all practical purposes, the law effectively does not exist.

bighairymike: As we have learned, if there is no enforcement, then for all practical purposes, the law effectively does not exist.

Well, of course.

Republican attorneys general in republican states, especially border states, happily choose not to charge a crime they talk about non-stop and claim happens regularly and frequently which, if proven, would dominate headline news for weeks.

That makes about as much sense as republicans supporting a rapist felon who called American war dead suckers and losers, partied with Jeffrey Epstein, committed multiple adulteries, incited an insurrection, claimed an election was stolen months before election day, refused to participate in the transition of power or attend his successor's inauguration, and stole dozens of the nation's most sensitive and top secret intelligence documents.

Well, it makes sense if you're in a cult.

Not nearly. As we have learned, if there is no enforcement, then for all practical purposes, the law effectively does not exist.

Of course there are checks and balances and they are quite effective.

IIRC, 2 of the 3 double Trump voters were in red states, the other in PA.

Republicans recounted AZ votes and found more votes for Biden.

The Texas AG offered $1 million dollars for evidence of voter fraud anywhere in the U.S. The only taker was Fetterman for the double Trump voter in PA. The Texas PA didn’t pay a penny. TO ANYONE!

There is no material voter fraud that anyone (including Republicans) can find.

Actually, the greatest threat of voter fraud are all the Republican election deniers who will be in charge of certifying elections. They will create havoc without showing ANY proof of voter fraud.

If there is so much voter fraud, why can’t Republicans find any?

Wake up, Mike. You’re better then that.

This one seems reasonably obvious to me.
By fighting an imaginary problem the GOP is able to make voting more difficult for already marginalized US citizens.
The GOP wins elections even though they continue to lose the popular vote. There is a wing of the Republican party that recognizes this problem, but they also seem to be a marginalized group:-)

There are serious problems with our "democracy".
Alan

It’s a function of how slimy your party is. A slime that permeates the entire apparatus.

You are going off the deep end, Dope. You just sling mud but without a shred of evidence for what you are saying.

A classic accusation that is a confession. Nothing in our politics has ever been slimier and swampier than Trump and MAGA. Deeply, deeply corrupt.

Voting is reserved for citizens only. By law.

How quaint. It’s never occurred to you why this was even being contested in the first place, has it? If it’s against the law that’s the end of it, right?

It's being contested because a narcissistic sociopath lost the election and can't live with that. Further, he realized he was going to lose and started planing what to contest ahead of the actual election itself. That's called a "tell".

There's a difference between registering to vote and actually voting. Every season they kick out registrations and it'll surprise you what they can catch. Actually voting? In red states like Texas, if you are black or brown you must be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but if you're white, well - he just missed his grandma so much he voted for her, no foul.

If there is so much voter fraud, why can’t Republicans find any?

Wake up, Mike. You’re better then that. - AW

-----------------

I was as suspicious of the 2020 election as could be at the outset of many accusations of voting irregularities. That concern was perpetuated by the holder of various records being so reluctant to share often requiring lengthy court fights to get access to the data to further various investigations, investigations that ultimately went against Trump.

As time went on and more cases were adjudicated my opinion changed and I no longer dispute the outcome of the election. I still think there are a number of things that should be done to bolster confidence in the elections, primarily in the area of transparency or processes, and access to records.

Anyway, I don't claim to be better than anyone, but I do respect the judicial process when it allowed to progress to a conclusion, which it did with respect to 2020.

This is why I don't like the standard moderator question, "Will you support the outcome?" Any response other than a loud and immediate "Yes" brands you as an election denier. I think the only realistic answer to the question is more nuanced, "Yes, after any and all legal challenges have been concluded."

You sound like you think all MAGA's think alike. Admittedly, we do with respect to overall Trump support but that doesn't mean we agree with every policy position. In addition to accepting the 2020 results, I also disagree with Trumps and the GOP's stance on abortion.

So getting back to my OP, when I posted:

Not nearly. As we have learned, if there is no enforcement, then for all practical purposes, the law effectively does not exist.

I actually had in mind the summer of love riots following George Floyd and the more recent vast acts of vandalism on our national monuments and the tolerance for the occupation of college campuses and flagrant antisemitism, intimidation and assault on Jewish students.

Illegals and non citizens SHOULD vote.

No different than Putin's election bots, they undermine your democracy and undermine your bullcrap sovereignty and while illegals benefit the Left, a Big Picture guy like me embraces ANYTHING that makes the rule of law less normal in your society. So to that end, let em vote.

Eventually they'll figure out that they should vote themselves benefits that cost overpaid white Liberal professionals money and we tithe their asses...one way or another.

A few of them might go Sweden on the Yoga Moms of Austin.

Not my issue.

Who knows? Maybe some waterbeds and condoms in the abandoned Chevron building when it happens.

Let's be hospitable.

Not nearly. As we have learned, if there is no enforcement, then for all practical purposes, the law effectively does not exist.

Yup. It’s hilarious how one thread has triggered the libs to no end.

Why is that?

This thread features it all - drive bys, fake outrage, raaacism, BS, name it. Literally nobody in the US doesn’t have some kind of photo ID. You cannot function as a citizen without SOMETHING and yet the goobs want to pretend that asking for it to vote is some kind of modern day poll tax.

It’s all performative. One wonders why they’re so sensitive, but I don’t think these responses are genuine.

problem the GOP is able to make voting more difficult for already marginalized US citizens.

In your mind there’s no room for understanding that secure elections are the cornerstone of the “democracy” you claim to support. That’s telling.

So much of modern society relies of photo ID for anything…but curiously, libs fight tooth and nail to prevent using it for voting. We see smug, performative posts when the subject comes up.

And btw if you’re on SSI ID is free is Arizona:
https://azdot.gov/mvd/services/driver-services/dri...

The identification card is available to all ages (including infants). Persons 65 or older can obtain the card free of charge. In addition, those receiving Federal Supplemental Security Income disability checks may qualify for a free card based on eligibility.

The identification card is available to all ages (including infants). Persons 65 or older can obtain the card free of charge. In addition, those receiving Federal Supplemental Security Income disability checks may qualify for a free card based on eligibility.


So much performance art, triggered by one thread.
You people are dinner theater.

Not nearly. As we have learned, if there is no enforcement, then for all practical purposes, the law effectively does not exist.

Well, no. As I remember it from last time, there was a small group (a dozen or less) that had registered to vote - they were interviewed and it seemed they were mistaken/mislead. These were all looked at carefully, and there was one case in process where an illegal may have mistakenly voted. The rest in that group didn't vote. There was one other questionable case. None had been adjudicated at the time, all in process, so it might be worth Dope's while to look, as one adjudicated case is worth 11 million illegal votes in his mind.

As time went on and more cases were adjudicated my opinion changed and I no longer dispute the outcome of the election. I still think there are a number of things that should be done to bolster confidence in the elections, primarily in the area of transparency or processes, and access to records.

This is where I am and I agree with this 100%. The cases were adjudicated, so that’s that for 2020. But that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t continue to work to secure our elections.

I view most of the replies in this thread to be completely dishonest - they’re quick to label any and everyone who merely wants secure elections as an election denier, s raaaaacist, whatever. When you’re over the target the flak gets the most intense and thus you see threads like this one.

Dope: elections are the cornerstone of the “democracy”

If, in your mind, elections are the cornerstone to democracy, we should make every effort to make it easy for people to vote. Send out ID and registration trucks on regular schedules to marginalized neighborhoods. Make it free in some cases. Provide mail-in voting, and extra poll booths in marginalized areas. Make it so simple and easy to vote that no one should ever have a basis to complain.

Instead, where someone thought incorrectly that they could vote and got a provisional ballot, they are sentenced to jail to send the message that them thar darkies shouldn't vote. But Texas finally acquitted her 7 years later, because knowledge that you are illegally voting is required, not just negligence.

It’s a function of how slimy your party is. A slime that permeates the entire apparatus.

Dude, get a grip. Seriously.

I'm not going to defend the Democratic party as being all perfect. It isn't. Democrats have flaws and commit crimes and do bad things. As do Republicans.

But there is a stark difference between the parties at the moment.

When Democrats see a flaw or a crime by a fellow party member, they call it out. They denounce it. They encourage the one with the flaw or crime to admit it and take responsibility. And if they don't, they allow the law to do it's job. Does this happen every time? Probably not. But does it happen fairly regularly? Yes, it does. I can cite current examples if you need help, but I'm sure you are aware of them already.

The Republican party no longer does that. When they see a flaw in a fellow party member, they deny that it is a flaw. When they see a crime, they cover it up, they try to hide it, they claim its not a crime, they claim that allowing the law to do it's job and prosecute the crime is a witch hunt.

Christianity, which many Republicans claim as their religion, has a story about this problem. There was a guy who noticed a speck of sawdust in his friend's eye. But he had a hard time removing it because he had an entire plank of lumber in his own eye. Don't be a hypocrite. Get the plank out of your own eye and then you can see more clearly to help get the speck of sawdust out of your friend's eye.

Get the slime out of your own party first. Then - and only then - can you help get the slime out of the other party.

--Peter

that them thar darkies shouldn

And there’s another example. Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacism.
But thanks for agreeing that Voter ID is useful, at least you managed that much.

Sorry, I don’t take lectures from people who have the attitude that you do about half the country.

And for purveyors of the raaaaaaacism argument, here you go:

https://youtu.be/DCytgANu010?si=41DNTnZDTSXNUOqh

None of you will watch this, and that’s cool…because it’s obvious who the real racists are.

Dope: elections are the cornerstone of the “democracy”

Then you surely must hate a corrupt demagogue who tried everything in his power to subvert our democracy. Surely?

Literally nobody in the US doesn’t have some kind of photo ID. You cannot function as a citizen without SOMETHING and yet the goobs want to pretend that asking for it to vote is some kind of modern day poll tax.

According to a 2024 University of Maryland study by the Center for Democracy and Civic Engagement, almost 21 million voting age U.S. citizens do not have a current (non-expired) driver’s license. Another 28+ million have a non-expired license, but it does not have both their current address and current name (with address being the largest issue.

That represents almost 50 million voters who don’t have a photo ID that would qualify for them to vote.

Another roughly 15 million people indicate they do not have any license at all.

Qualified voter ID is a huge issue for a very large segment of the population.

Quite a large gap between your beliefs and reality.


https://cdce.umd.edu/sites/cdce.umd.edu/files/pubs...

Even if this is true…then work to get them ID.

But you don’t. Paternalistic racist liberals think that minorities are too stupid to k ow they need ID.

There’s your inflated opinion of yourselves, and the ugliness that really isn’t that far below the surface.

Qualified voter ID is a huge issue for a very large segment of the population.

As long as the GOP sees preventing legitimate voters from exercising their right, they will do what they can to keep it this way.

Even if this is true…then work to get them ID.

But you don’t. Paternalistic racist liberals think that minorities are too stupid to k ow they need ID.

Let me see if I have this straight.

You want to fix a problem that doesn’t exist but you want me to fix it for you.

Apparently, it’s not the minorities that are stupid.

Instead, where someone thought incorrectly that they could vote and got a provisional ballot, they are sentenced to jail to send the message that them thar darkies shouldn't vote. But Texas finally acquitted her 7 years later, because knowledge that you are illegally voting is required, not just negligence. - Lambo



Too bad that happened to the poor immigrant who very easily misunderstand since they are unfamiliar with our culture, laws, procedures and language.

Such a person could very easily be exploited by an activist inclined to do so. They could tell the immigrant that voting would help them in a future immigration hearing, showing their commitment to our system.

What makes no sense is knowingly allowing a person ineligible to vote to be added to the voter registration database.

You’re the one claiming there’s a massive problem. So fix it.

But I suspect you don’t want to, for reasons I’ve noted earlier.

That represents almost 50 million voters who don’t have a photo ID that would qualify for them to vote.

Another roughly 15 million people indicate they do not have any license at all.

Qualified voter ID is a huge issue for a very large segment of the population.

Quite a large gap between your beliefs and reality. - AW

-------------

You are talking like all 50 Million are utterly incapable of obtaining a valid id yet somehow they manage to navigate all the other laws, procedures and documents required to exist in today's society. LOL.

And for purveyors of the raaaaaaacism argument, here you go:

No real response, just a video from the Daily Wire:

"Overall, we rate The Daily Wire Right Biased based on story selection and editorial positions that align with the conservative right. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the promotion of propaganda and a few failed fact checks."

Here's the Brennan Center:

SNIP For example, as Arizona legislators were debating new restrictive voting bills, State Rep. John Kavanagh stated that Arizona Republicans “don’t mind putting security measures in that won’t let everybody vote” and that he was more concerned with the “quality of votes” than with overall voter turnout.9 When defending two of Arizona’s restrictive voting laws before the Supreme Court in March 2021, the attorney for the Republican National Committee admitted that the party’s interest in the laws was to avoid being at “a competitive disadvantage relative to Democrats.”
footnote10 And when discussing proposals to expand access to mail voting, President Trump stated that an expansion of early and mail voting would lead to “levels of voting that if you agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again.”
footnote11

These statements do not represent judicial findings of intentional discrimination. But when viewed alongside the long list of instances of discrimination and racial disparities in the 2020 election cycle, these statements offer a window into discriminatory intent playing out in real time. This public rhetoric provides important context for understanding the full spectrum of discriminatory effects discussed in this report. SNIP

I remember a Republican researcher on voter suppression died and his wife gave his PC to some liberals and they found how he was recommending some things he'd researched. A new way to suppress voting that hadn't been tried yet - inventive. And sometimes y'all say the quiet part out loud - in a speech, or admit it to a journo. Maybe someone's google-fu is better than mine.

But now you seem to be doing well among Latin Americans - so it's a two edged sword. :)

Here's voting policies people support:

A majority of voters support policies that expand voting rights.

These include:

Making early, in-person voting available for at least two weeks prior to Election Day (76%),
Establishing Election Day as a national holiday (72%),
Allowing people convicted of felonies to vote after serving their sentences (69%),
Permitting any voter to vote by mail (57%),
Automatically registering voters if they interact with a government agency (57%) and
Implementing Election Day voter registration (57%).

So let us know when you stop pretending about this.

You are talking like all 50 Million are utterly incapable of obtaining a valid id yet somehow they manage to navigate all the other laws, procedures and documents required to exist in today's society. LOL.

Almost like all these hapless minorities couldn’t exist without the Great White Liberal Father, amirite?

There’s a clear political party for paternalistically racist antisemites, and it’s no secret which one it is.

Even if this is true…then work to get them ID.

But you don’t. Paternalistic racist liberals think that minorities are too stupid to k ow they need ID.

Oh no. It's as simple as watching the purge of the voting roster for felons with a lot of people being ejected for having the last name of Washington. A new law that doesn't allow previously acceptable ID, such as library cards, or requiring pictures on the ID, or that the perosn making minimum wage travel 200 miles and pay $50 for a birth certificate, and another $50 for the ID and the office is only open during work time.

Finding out that you've been purged from the voter rolls due to a new Republican strategy must upset people. And we can't keep up with all your strategies. There's an awful lot of hugely wasted effort devoted to suppressing the vote, and our courts are cluttered with voting cases. It's a complete waste, but it does keep Republicans in power, so it is useful to them.

If Trump loses the Presidency, will there be a Republican party?

These include: - Lapsody

Making early, in-person voting available for at least two weeks prior to Election Day (76%),

Seems OK, in person voting is the most secure and allowing a two week window that includes a few late nights and a Saturday should make it easy for voters to schedule around their jobs, child care, to arrange transportation, or whatever.

Establishing Election Day as a national holiday (72%)

Conceptually no problem but there are too many "paid" federal holidays already. We keep finding ways to require less work. Is this even necessary given the two week early voting window above?

Allowing people convicted of felonies to vote after serving their sentences (69%)

No strong feelings either way. Leave it as a states issue.

Permitting any voter to vote by mail (57%)

Only if a Rock Solid verification process can be devised. And ballots must be requested and not mass mailed to everybody in the database.

Automatically registering voters if they interact with a government agency (57%)

Your eligibility to vote is unrelated to the government agencies you come into contact with

and Implementing Election Day voter registration (57%).

OK as long as any votes submitted that day are provisional.

If Trump loses the Presidency, will there be a Republican party?

If Trump wins the Presidency there will be no "Republican Party". Give it a new name, Trump killed the Grand Old Party, the party of Lincoln. Killed it dead.

Sorry, I don’t take lectures from people who have the attitude that you do about half the country.

First, it's only about 1/3 of the country. In round numbers, the US is 1/3 each democrats, republicans, and independents.

Second, there is a minority of republicans who have not swallowed the MAGA kool-aid. That reduces my attitude down to something closer to 1/4 to 1/5 of the country. Still a lot of people, though.

Third, I have that attitude because that 20% - 25% of the country is literally tearing the country apart. You are on the verge of putting a convicted felon, an adjudicated rapist, a con man, a sociopath into the White House. Again. By doing so, we would run the risk of losing our Democratic Republic to an autocracy. Yes, it might not happen. But there is a real possibility that it would. We shouldn't be any where near doing that.

Normally, I have a lot of grace towards people with different ideas about how the country should be governed. Sincere disagreements about a great many issues that are discussed honestly and openly are healthy for any country, but are the core principal that has served this country well for almost 250 years. Those discussions have to be based on two shared things: facts, and putting what is best for the country ahead of self.

The most important manifestation of putting self over country is accepting defeat when voters choose the ideas of others over your own. We accept both winning and losing elections with humility. When you win, you don't denigrate your opponents, but accept the challenge of putting your ideas into practice. When you lose, you accept defeat with grace and work to change minds with either better communication of your ideas or better ideas. For those elected as part of either a minority or majority, you treat your peers with respect, you continue to promote your ideas, you engage in compromise to get some of your ideas implemented.

We now have a significant portion of Republicans who refuse to acknowledge facts as facts, and who put self ahead of country. When they win elections, they attempt to oppress their opponents so those opponents have a harder time winning in the future. When they lose, they yell and scream like children, claiming things are unfair and hurtling unfounded accusations far and wide. Rather than accept that their ideas were less popular than other ideas at the polls, they - and specifically you, Dope - have to protect their fragile egos by convincing themselves that there was some unfairness in the process, that voting was rigged, that they were unfairly smeared, that those with power used that power against them. They do this because they are themselves willing to use those tactics to win. They can't conceive that others play fair when they are willing to cheat.

So while I normally have grace to opposing ideas, there comes a time when grace can no longer be offered. Those opposed to American ideals cannot be allowed to corrupt those ideals for their personal gain. Those who have been duped by con men need to be told plainly and clearly that they have been duped. They have to be shouted down loudly, strongly, and consistently in the marketplace of ideas. They have to be exposed for what they are - not bad people, but people who have fallen victim to one of the biggest cons of our lifetimes. The only bad people here are the ones running the con. Those who understand they are running a con, and those who allow the con to continue. The victims of the con are Democrats, Republicans, and Independents. Some are victims by believing the con. Others are victims by having to live with the consequences of the con - the marginalized, the powerless, those whose lives have been disrupted or destroyed by the con.

So I don't care how you respond. I will continue to call out lies, to promote facts, and to speak plainly about the country. I will not sugar coat things, but will say it like it is, whether those listening can accept it or not. I want the country to get past this terrible time. But that will not happen with capitulation, with letting people have their say when their say is filled with lies.

Like it or not, I'm here to stay and to tell the truth to the best of my ability.

--Peter

Establishing Election Day as a national holiday (72%)

Conceptually no problem but there are too many "paid" federal holidays already.

Combine another Federal Holiday with it. Easy peasy.

Allowing people convicted of felonies to vote after serving their sentences (69%)

No strong feelings either way. Leave it as a states issue.

No, If we leave it to the states it becomes a voter suppression issue, so let's just make it that for the Federal elections they can vote.

Permitting any voter to vote by mail (57%)

Only if a Rock Solid verification process can be devised. And ballots must be requested and not mass mailed to everybody in the database.

Mike, it is rock solid right now - right as you sit on your arse it is rock solid. Use you google fu. I define rock solid as it is not reasonably even close for illegal votes to be outcome determinative. AND - most states mail out ballots to people who have requested mail in ballots before. This is reasonable. So if you request a mail in ballot, or have voted by mail in the past, you should get a ballot in the mail.

Automatically registering voters if they interact with a government agency (57%)

Your eligibility to vote is unrelated to the government agencies you come into contact with

You are an absolute waster of money Mike. Here in Florida, when you get your driver's license, you are automatically registered to vote. You have to bring your qualifications with you and they are listed on the internet. So when you interact to get or renew your driver's license, you are also interacting about your voter registration.

and Implementing Election Day voter registration (57%).

OK as long as any votes submitted that day are provisional.

As they should be - and subject to the same rigor everyone else gets.

Automatically registering voters if they interact with a government agency (57%) - Lapsody

>>Your eligibility to vote is unrelated to the government agencies you come into contact with - me<<

You are an absolute waster of money Mike. Here in Florida, when you get your driver's license, you are automatically registered to vote. You have to bring your qualifications with you and they are listed on the internet. So when you interact to get or renew your driver's license, you are also interacting about your voter registration. - Lapsody

-------------

In you original text you refer to government agencies generically, suggesting all of them. I replied with that context in mind, thinking a health inspector encountering a bunch of potentially undocumented immigrants working in a restaurant is a government interaction but that is not the venue where an opportunity for voter registration should be presented.

Now you are restricting the encounter to a drivers license office where and application with documents must be presented and verified. I would agree with that but that was not your original assertion.

In you original text you refer to government agencies generically, suggesting all of them. I replied with that context in mind, thinking a health inspector encountering a bunch of potentially undocumented immigrants working in a restaurant is a government interaction

Are you trying to be funny here? Undocumented immigrants can't vote so why are you talking about it? Is the object to score "illegal immigrants voting" points? So you work it into everything?



but that is not the venue where an opportunity for voter registration should be presented.

Now you are restricting the encounter to a drivers license office where and application with documents must be presented and verified.

No, I never restricted anything, you were the one talking imaginary illegal immigrants voting during medical to get that into the conversation. I was just giving an example. In remote areas having a person with multiple duties sometimes works best. There's lots of different approaches but the Republicans feel the less people who vote, the better off they are.

>>In you original text you refer to government agencies generically, suggesting all of them. I replied with that context in mind, thinking a health inspector encountering a bunch of potentially undocumented immigrants working in a restaurant is a government interaction

Are you trying to be funny here? Undocumented immigrants can't vote so why are you talking about it? Is the object to score "illegal immigrants voting" points? So you work it into everything?<<

-------------

Damn, you caught me. Let me take the illegal immigrant out of the example and then you can make me see how your initial generic all-of-government proposal makes sense.

bhm rephrasing,

In your original text you refer to government agencies generically, suggesting all of them. I replied with that context in mind, thinking a health inspector who observes a number of employees working in a restaurant but not washing their hands before leaving the restroom. As he writes each a citation, he asks for id and each of them presents their Birth Certificate and their US Passport both confirming their status as a US citizen. That citation certainly is an interaction with a government agency. So, after handing them their ticket, the health inspector should proceed to conduct a voter registration of some sort.

I really don't think that is what you meant, but you seem to avoid saying so.

Post New

US Policy FAQ

---

Contact Shrewd'm
Contact the developer of these message boards.