It is as difficult to sink a business without debt as it is sink a ship without holes.
- Manlobbi
Personal Finance Topics / Retirement Investing
No. of Recommendations: 0
After what happened to Pappa -- W learned his place so this one doesn't apply to him.
But Trump. Obama, Clinton could all go to a support group together to discuss Bibi Netanyahu lol they'd all have something in common. Heck invite Sarkozy from France.
"No Jedi! There's not too much foreign influence in american politics!"
Ok TMF Sheeples.....
Sigh..you people
No. of Recommendations: 2
But Trump. Obama, Clinton could all go to a support group together to discuss Bibi Netanyahu lol they'd all have something in common. Heck invite Sarkozy from France.
It has been SOP, for years, for people running for POTUS to make their pilgrimage to AIPAC, to pledge fealty to Israel.
Steve
No. of Recommendations: 1
It has been SOP, for years, for people running for POTUS to make their pilgrimage to AIPAC, to pledge fealty to Israel.
If we're going to talk seriously about Israel, it's a lot more complicated than that. Israel is our only -albeit not entirely reliable- ally in the region. That is both a help, and also a source of problems. As long as we support Israel, the current regimes in the region will be antagonistic towards us. But even if we stopped our support, would that change much? Our history in the region isn't great (e.g. Mossaddegh and the Shah). The region would have to change fundamentally before we would be accepted, regardless of our support of Israel. Which could happen. But it's not there yet, and the bellicose rhetoric from Bibi isn't helping matters.
And I don't pretend to be an expert. It's likely even more complicated than I know about.
Israel is in an existential conflict. Multiple actors want to "drive them into the sea". You can't expect them not to protect themselves. And they are one of the few democracies in the region, which we claim to support (though our history would say otherwise...see Mossaddegh again, or Allende). As someone looking in from the outside, I say genocide is bad. Yet they can't seem to coexist. It seems there are no good solutions.
No. of Recommendations: 0
Not saying it's not an amazing entity and a testament to its people -- it is, on steroids. And yes, they should indeed have right to protect from "the religion of peace", otherwise known as the Sheeple Scouts.
But it's one of the foreign entities that owns America's ass....
And i'm glad to see some are growing tired of it.
One of the few things I am rooting for where it comes to the college kids and the AOC types.
No. of Recommendations: 0
And i'm glad to see some are growing tired of it.
I've been tired of it for decades. IMO, it's bad policy that makes us look bad even to our allies. But all the other options seem worse, in terms of our foreign policy.
No. of Recommendations: 7
If we're going to talk seriously about Israel, it's a lot more complicated than that. Israel is our only -albeit not entirely reliable- ally in the region.
I realize I may be flamed again. Many are very passionate about the question. My hunch is the US' unquestioning support for Israel is a matter of guilt for not having gotten into the war earlier, and crushed the Nazis, to end the genocide years earlier.
A secondary concern is a voting block in the US.
Outside of that, the US has no strategic interest in a bit of land on the shore of the Med. The Arabs have the oil and gas. The Arabs control the choke points in commercial sea traffic. The Arabs have the population. Don't even try to say it's because Israel is a democracy. The US doesn't give a hoot about "democracy", as evidenced by it's decades of support for every two bit dictator, who pays lip service to being a "good anti-Communist".
Steve
No. of Recommendations: 1
A secondary concern is a voting block in the US.
I suspect that is primary. Jewish persons control a lot of wealth in this country. So they wield an out-sized amount of power compared to their population. At this point, I don't think there is any guilt about the genocide. It has almost passed out of living memory (just a few people who remember). It's a matter of history now.
We did (and do) pay lip-service to "democracy". During the Cold War, being anti-communist was more important (IMO, wrongly). So we put up with a lot of dictators.
I think Israel is useful in that they can whack their neighbors while we stand back and watch. Sometimes we say "tsk tsk". But we don't get our hands dirty. A cynical view, but I think reasonably accurate. That they are a democracy makes it easier to justify supporting them.
Also, I believe just off their coast is a significant amount of gas. No oil, but if Israel could get hold of that gas, that would be a good source of revenue.
No. of Recommendations: 2
I don't think there is any guilt about the genocide. It has almost passed out of living memoryThen call it "institutional memory". The US has supported Israel, since it was the first country in the world to recognize Israel. We continue to support Israel, because we always have.
Israel also takes every opportunity to remind everyone. I went through the Israeli pavilion at Expo 67 in Montreal. It was all about the genocide. There was a TV miniseries in the 80s, that, to my recollection, first called the genocide the "holocaust".
So they wield an out-sized amount of powerIf that was the case, the US would not have dragged it's feet two years, before getting in the war. Dachau was opened in March, 1933. Kristallnacht was November 9, 1938. The Nazis started forming Jewish ghettos as soon as they invaded Poland, in September 1939. Starting on July 18, 1941, British signals intelligence started picking up communications describing mass murder of Jews. On September 12, 41, Churchill was informed of what signals intelligence had been picking up. It still took the December 7th attack, to get the US moving.
Remember the St Louis incident?
A Ship of Jewish Refugees Was Refused US Landing in 1939. This Was Their Fate
As the M.S. St. Louis cruised off the coast of Miami in June 1939, its passengers could see the lights of the city glimmering. But the United States hadn’t been on the ship’s original itinerary, and its passengers didn’t have permission to disembark in Florida. As the more than 900 Jewish passengers looked longingly at the twinkling lights, they hoped against hope that they could land.
Those hopes would soon be dashed by immigration authorities, sending the ship back to Europe. And then, nearly a third of the passengers on the St. Louis were murdered.https://www.history.com/articles/wwii-jewish-refug...Yes, the US has plenty of reason to feel guilty about what went on in Europe, that the US did not interfere with.
Steve
No. of Recommendations: 0
If that was the case, the US would not have dragged it's feet two years, before getting in the war.
I was referring to TODAY, and current support for Israel. I don't think there is much guilt 80 years later. There may have been at the time.
There was no Israel in the time you reference. Yes, I'm quite familiar with the SS St Louis. Much like the past year or so, we don't seem to like refugees. No matter whether we return them to their doom.
