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Maybe there's some hope for New York after all. It was beyond ridiculous he was charged at all.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/daniel-penny-...

Daniel Penny was acquitted Monday of criminally negligent homicide in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely, a 30-year-old homeless man with a history of mental illness whose final moments on a New York City subway train were captured on bystander video that set off weeks of protests and captured national attention.

Thank goodness.

>>Daniel Penny was acquitted Monday of criminally negligent homicide in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely, a 30-year-old homeless man with a history of mental illness whose final moments on a New York City subway train were captured on bystander video that set off weeks of protests and captured national attention.<<

Thank goodness. - Dope

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Good but that doesn't reverse the harm experienced by Penny by the year long prosecution.

And Penny's twisting in the legal wind is not over. The dead sociopath was black and the good Samaritan was white, so of course the sociopath's family deserves to be paid, and have filed civil suit(s) against Penny.

Good but that doesn't reverse the harm experienced by Penny by the year long prosecution.

And Penny's twisting in the legal wind is not over. The dead sociopath was black and the good Samaritan was white, so of course the sociopath's family deserves to be paid, and have filed civil suit(s) against Penny.

It's ridiculous what Alvin Bragg has put Penny through. The family seems like nice pieces of work also.

Good but that doesn't reverse the harm experienced by Penny by the year long prosecution.

Harm experienced by Penny?

He held Neely in a chokehold for 6 minutes that the medical examiner who performed the autopsy thought was responsible for a death. Not a breathehold, a chokehold. For 6 minutes. How long can you hold your breath?

Neely clearly had mental health issues, but he did not attack or threaten to attack anyone.

And there are different standards for criminal and civil lawsuits. Just ask O.J. Simpson. Although you might need a ouija board.

Let’s see what the jury decides in the civil case.

But the medical examiner who performed the autopsy on Neely, Dr. Cynthia Harris, told jurors it was her medical opinion “that there are no alternative reasonable explanations” for his death and that those proposed by the defense were “so improbable — that it stands shoulder to shoulder with impossibility.”

Harm experienced by Penny?

He never should have been charged in the first place. The only reason he was is the obvious one: Bragg thought he had a slam dunk case he could use to fire up his voting base for the upcoming election.

Congrats for Googling the NBC article, btw.

BTW. It's more likely Penny used a carotid choke, not a "breathehold".

Good but that doesn't reverse the harm experienced by Penny by the year long prosecution.

And Penny's twisting in the legal wind is not over. The dead sociopath was black and the good Samaritan was white, so of course the sociopath's family deserves to be paid, and have filed civil suit(s) against Penny.

That's the American way. I'm happy he was acquitted. Neely was never diagnosed as a sociopath.

It was beyond ridiculous he was charged at all.

It took the jury 4 days of deliberation on the manslaughter. That means it was a tough call.

BTW. It's more likely Penny used a carotid choke, not a "breathehold".

Having experienced that chokehold, I began “graying out” at 15 seconds before tapping out.

So why did he apply it for six minutes? Doesn’t come close to adding up, Dope.

In the law enforcement training that I had we were taught the 'chokehold'. It's about cutting off the blood supply to the brain and when properly applied it is effective and fast. We also had it drilled into us that it could result in death and that there was no need to sustain it for longer than it took for the subject to lose consciousness.

Six minutes? Was clearly excessive.

So why did he apply it for six minutes? Doesn’t come close to adding up, Dope.

How do you know how hard he applied it?
You don't, and neither does the prosecutor.

Why did the EMTs refuse to treat him? He wasn't dead when they showed up.

And if you know MMA, then you know this was a carotid choke that didn't touch his windpipe.

Six minutes? Was clearly excessive. - ges

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Yes it was, but that is not only factor that matters.

BTW, another forensic expert testified detecting a heartbeat on the would be Sunday school teacher after Penny released him. Then there are the parade of witnesses each expressing their version of the terror they experienced as the nutjob raged around the subway car. The other passengers were grateful that Penny stepped up.

But that choke hold sure was long, so lock him up, nothing else to know about it, right?

Oh, Bragg did not charge Penny for about ten days, not until the local activists started cranking up the whitey did it again rage and it became a political calculation to Bragg to prosecute.

Oh, Bragg did not charge Penny for about ten days, not until the local activists started cranking up the whitey did it again rage and it became a political calculation to Bragg to prosecute.

Yep. Purely the worst form of racist politics from the start.

https://thelefthook.substack.com/p/black-lives-sti...

"Black Lives Still Don’t Matter in America

In 2024, it’s good to be a white man who kills unarmed Black people in America. On the acquittal of Daniel Penny who choked Jordan Neely to death."

In 2024, it’s good to be a white man who kills unarmed Black people in America. On the acquittal of Daniel Penny who choked Jordan Neely to death."

Lulz. I guess it's The New Normal to run around and threaten to kill everyone around you while crazy and/or high.

I guess it's The New Normal to run around and threaten to kill everyone around you while crazy and/or high.

Hey, it worked for the Kyle Rittenhouse... you're NRA mini-mongoloid-messiah.
How is it Trump hasn't nominated him as ambassador to Syria?

Lulz. I guess it's The New Normal to run around and threaten to kill everyone around you while crazy and/or high. - Dope

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If some insane rando threatens you and innocent people around you, no matter how close he swings the blade close to your nose, you have no right to protect yourself until he actually stabs you, and maybe not even then. Good system.

If some insane rando threatens you and innocent people around you, no matter how close he swings the blade close to your nose, you have no right to protect yourself until he actually stabs you, and maybe not even then. Good system.

Neely didn’t threaten anyone nor did he have any weapon on him.

If the truth doesn’t support your position, just made stuff up.

Works for Trump.

You can’t fix stupid.

If some insane rando threatens you and innocent people around you, no matter how close he swings the blade close to your nose, you have no right to protect yourself until he actually stabs you, and maybe not even then. Good system.</iL

That’s the left today.

Dude walks up and shoots a CEO in the back? Hero!
Dude stops a drugged-out, crazy multiple arrestee from threatening a subway train? Hang him!

liberals. Couldn’t make them up you tried.

If some insane rando threatens you and innocent people around you, no matter how close he swings the blade close to your nose, you have no right to protect yourself until he actually stabs you, and maybe not even then. Good system.

You've revealed your ignorance of the law Mike. That's assault. And he didn't have a knife.

If some insane rando threatens you and innocent people around you, no matter how close he swings the blade close to your nose, you have no right to protect yourself until he actually stabs you, and maybe not even then. Good system.

As Lapsody pointed out, that's incorrect. If someone commits assault against you or others, you are allowed to use force to defend yourself or others. Even the prosecution in this case acknowledged that when Penny initiated force against Neely, it was lawful - even laudable.

Below is a link to the NY Penal Code provision on the justified use of force. You're allowed to use physical force against another person to prevent the imminent use by that person of unlawful force against you or another person. You're allowed to use deadly force in response to that other person using or being about to use deadly force themselves, subject to limits and caveats.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/35.1...

Rittenhouse is a disgusting person and a dupe. That does not excuse your use of a disgusting slur. Please don't do that.

You're allowed to use deadly force in response to that other person using or being about to use deadly force themselves, subject to limits and caveats. - albaby


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Yeah, too bad that Penny didn't have time to research those limits and caveats as he made the split second decision that the threat was real and the innocents needed protection. But that is where prosecutorial discretion comes in unless that discretion is wielded based on politics more than justice as was the with that humble bodega shopkeeper who spent a week+ on Rikers Island for protecting himself.

But that is where prosecutorial discretion comes in unless that discretion is wielded based on politics more than justice as was the with that humble bodega shopkeeper who spent a week+ on Rikers Island for protecting himself.

Too bad an unarmed, non-threatening, humble Michael Jackson impersonator didn’t get an opportunity to spend a week on Rikers Island.

Because he’s dead.

Yeah, too bad that Penny didn't have time to research those limits and caveats as he made the split second decision that the threat was real and the innocents needed protection.

I don't think he was prosecuted for the "split second" decision that he made. Again, the prosecution stated that his initial use of force was legal. His assessment of the threat was correct, he was justified in using force to protect the innocent, and the state was not arguing that he did anything wrong in deciding to use force in the first place.

Their theory of the case was that Penny was no longer justified in continuing to use that specific type of force after several minutes had passed.

It's sad that we have mentally ill homeless people in our society.
It's sad that people are afraid of mentally ill homeless people.
It's sad that Penny felt the need to use deadly force against a mentally ill homeless person in order to keep people safe.
It's sad that Penny will now have to live out his life knowing he murdered an innocent man.

There is no good outcome here, but it does highlight that as a society we have a lot of work to do.
Alan

It's sad that Penny will now have to live out his life knowing he murdered an innocent man.

Somehow, having been completely exonerated by a jury, I doubt Penny is going to feel very sad about it for very long.

But what may make him truly sad is having to endure a civil case against him, along with a massive financial payout to the family of Jordan Neely upon a guilty verdict.

There is no good outcome here, but it does highlight that as a society we have a lot of work to do.

Indeed.

Our Constitution’s preamble includes the phrase “in order to form a more perfect Union.”

Our founding fathers knew perfection was unobtainable (kind of like the Dichotomy Paradox), but they expected constant improvement.

Unfortunately, the path is never straight nor smooth, and sometimes it even moves backwards.

You can't fix stupid.

A deadlocked jury is different than "completely exonerated". There is no evidence Penny is a psychopath.
I suspect he will have demons for the rest of his life. He did not expect to kill the man.
Alan

Loads of leaps to conclusions in this thread.

First, some education for our lib friends: there are different kinds of chokeholds one can employ to stop an attacker. Two major types, in fact.

First is the windpipe or tracheal choke. This is where you compress someone's trachea and restrict airflow by putting pressure on the larynx. This is an illegal choke in most places as the likelihood of damage is very high and there's a real possibility of death - many things can go wrong with tracheal chokes. They're not really taught in self defense classes or in martial arts.

What Penny used is called a blood or a carotid choke. This is where you use you shoulder and forearm to restrict blood flow to the brain by compressing the carotid arteries.

In a windpipe choke, the subject will thrash around as the airway is restricted. Paradoxically it makes someone harder to control.

In a blood choke, as the brain gets starved of blood they just go limp and pass out. For this reason it's a legal thing in police work and MMA tournaments.

Penny used a blood choke because a) they're harmless to most people b) once you gain someone's back it's the fastest and safest way to get somebody under control and c) the subject tends to pass out pretty quickly if you know what you're doing.

If you're going to try to kill someone, you're not going to do it that way so the "murder" calls are stupid on stilts. He's a Marine. He knows how to break a neck if that's what he wanted to do, which he didn't.

The 'held for 6 minutes' thing is speculative at best in terms of how much pressure was being applied to the side of the guy's neck.

If you're going to try to kill someone, you're not going to do it that way so the "murder" calls are stupid on stilts. He's a Marine. He knows how to break a neck if that's what he wanted to do, which he didn't.

Which is why he wasn't charged with first- or second-degree murder (or whatever they call those charges in NY). Manslaughter or negligent homicide is the charge they bring if you're not trying to kill someone, but kill them accidentally in a criminally culpable manner.

Which is why he wasn't charged with first- or second-degree murder (or whatever they call those charges in NY). Manslaughter or negligent homicide is the charge they bring if you're not trying to kill someone, but kill them accidentally in a criminally culpable manner.

I'm referring to the "murder" talk by protestors and around the internet.

I'm referring to the "murder" talk by protestors and around the internet.

Most protestors and people "around the internet" use imprecise language that doesn't comport to the formal definitions of homicide crimes under state penal codes. Plus, "person who committed negligent homicide" doesn't fit as neatly onto a sign or into a slogan as "murderer." That doesn't mean that they are asserting that Penny deliberately chose to kill Neely with the requisite intent of malice aforethought necessary to support a charge of murder - just that they're protesting or posting using colloquial language.

Our Constitution’s preamble includes the phrase “in order to form a more perfect Union.”

I hear tell Trump will rewrite the Constitution and it will be titled,

“The Art Of The Deal” 🤣

The Art of the Steal

I had to correct your typo.

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