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https://mishtalk.com/economics/perceived-importanc...
A Gallup poll shows the percentage of Americans saying college is “very important” has fallen to 35%

Now of course a degree in a STEM field is a requirement for employment and much more marketable.
For other fields a college degree very well may be a poor return on investment.

The cost of an university is much higher currently. I paid, in 1969, $165 a quarter at a land grant university in Ohio. Or $495 a year. In today's dollars that is~$4350.
I looked up the resident tuition for a year at the same university today. $13,641.
I got a bargain.

Folks now can go to a community college and obtain a technical degree in computers, HVAC, auto mechanics, health care etc and get a decent paying job. Tuition at my local community college is $1850 a year. A much better return on investment.

Now of course a degree in a STEM field is a requirement for employment and much more marketable.
For other fields a college degree very well may be a poor return on investment.

Indeed, although in general people with college degrees have significantly higher lifetime earnings than those without. Many companies require a degree even if you technically don't need a degree to do the job as well.

I wonder how many Americans evaluate the logic of sending their kids to a free (or nearly free) university in Europe. Most courses in the UK and Germany (maybe elsewhere as well) are available in English. Having a deploa from the Sorbone, Heildelberg or Oxford might not be as common in the Staes as one from Harvard, but is probably as useful to open doors.

Jeff

I wonder how many Americans evaluate the logic of sending their kids to a free (or nearly free) university in Europe.

My niece got her masters degree in French in France. It was an absolute bargain, and what an awesome way to practice what she learned.

IP

“ I wonder how many Americans evaluate the logic of sending their kids to a free (or nearly free) university in Europe. Most courses in the UK and Germany (maybe elsewhere as well) are available in English. ”

Not free in the UK since 1998. Costs about the same as mentioned above ($13k) for residents. Overseas students pay more.

I got free college in the UK in the ‘80s. Even got a grant for living expenses. Them were the days.

Two of my kids got almost free tuition in-state in Ohio due to academic scholarships. Med school is another matter, however…

15k eur to get a 5 year medical school education in Ireland.

That's the undergrad choice.

Postgraduate 75k eur

I think the data is very clear...the economic value of a college degree is very dependent on what the degree is in. Unfortunately, many colleges are not going to advertise this fact because it would put many departments in existential risk. For many of us, the investment was not large and the potential payout was. It is very much the case today that the reverse is in effect. By the time we got to our third child, we were pretty direct. If you want us to help pay for your education, there are certain degrees we will not fund.

I think the data is very clear...the economic value of a college degree is very dependent on what the degree is in.

I would add on to that the importance of accumulating job experience along the way, via co-op's and internships. Happily these also tend to be well paid if you are in a STEM degree, but more importantly it shows the prospective employer that the 22 year old grad can function in an adult work environment. That ability is in question by employers these days, a fall out from the smart phone generation's dumbing down of not being able to interact with people, unable to take their eyes off of their social media.

We did not limit the choice of degree, but insisted on maxing out internships and frankly exploring as many subject matters as possible within a 4.5 year time frame. (I went in to college a French major, influenced by my parent's profession and strong liberal arts upbringing, but came out a Chemist after discovering that I loved math and science!) Highly encouraged study abroad as well, which was basically half price for Eldest at GA Tech, where we paid out of state tuition while in class in Atlanta, but in state tuition when abroad. Culturally, priceless.

Unfortunately, while helpful in terms of interview anecdotes and references, Youngest's internship experience was truncated by Covid shut downs, just as he was getting into the higher level experiences, but Eldest came out of his 4 internships with enough experience in Tech Support to know he hated it, and a strong background in Cybersecurity to know he loved it, not to mention 3 job offers which he declined for his dream job. The $50K he managed to tuck into his brokerage account by graduation didn't hurt! My 15 month full time (6 credit) internship experience allowed me to graduate with not only cash in the bank, but a job offer in hand, which gave me the confidence at graduation in a job interview I took at my Chem Prof's request to get an offer 30% higher than the first one.

IP

I agree with IP 100%.

As a small child (4-6 years old), I would watch "The Modern Farmer" religiously each morning at about sunrise. I planted my "farm" in a small plot behind our house, but probable would have aced any 4H society quiz.

While I was in elementary school, depending on the year, I attended either weekend or summer programs at local colleges in ancient Greek culture and history (at Brooklyn College), and astronomy (at NYU). During high school, I spent a summer at Carnegie Mellon (studying electrical theory and computer programing courtesy of the National Science Foundation). By the time I had graduated college,(night-school electrical engineering), ignoring the seasonal snow-shoveling gigs as a kid, I held jobs as a tuxedo rental salesman, worked on an assembly line (Lightalarms emergency lighting), graphic artist, machinist and (most importantly) electrician.

While growing up, my mother was perennially taking master's degrees (she ended up with three) and would both read her liberal arts books (anthropology, art history, etc.) as well as introduce me to techniques from her art studies ranging from etching to pottery to silk screening, etc., not to mention taking me to museums on a regular basis.

We my kid sister WendyBG, I was taught advanced value investing when I was about 11 years old by our grandmother.

I always liked science, and went to a STEM high school school on steroids. Besides the run-of-the-mill AP stuff, we also ended up with four years of machine shop, pattern making, foundry, metallurgy, electrical theory, computer programming (the school had the first computer terminal in a NYC high school), four years of assorted technical drawing and so on. As an example of the school's innovative approach, my third year of French was taught from a French high school physics textbook.

Along the way I also accumulated an MBA (in management), a master electrician's license and a professional engineer license.

So, why bother listing the above CV? I can honestly say that, at some point or other, every one of the items I listed above was instrumental in a decision, discussion, invention, etc. in later life. I absolutely believe that the broader the field that you are exposed to, the more likely you will find an analog as a novel solution in a different field. While there may be an advantage to getting a job by acquiring the appropriate college degree, your success in that job is more likely to be dependent on you previous experience. In my case, I decided that if I was going to compete, I wanted it to be at a casino table I owned - and became a serial entrepreneur before it was fashionable.

Jeff

4 year UCONN liberal arts/visual arts
2 year Mechanical Engineering degree/AutoCAD

The artists I know have very little computer. Just using Photoshop without much training is not enough.
The video game designers have very little "Independent" art design. They lean more on computer science.

For the game designers first comes the computer skills and then the mirror of what people make as video games.

When fortnight came along the industry was turned on its head. People en mas, it had been done before, began to play for free, and buy things in the game.

What is going wrong right now, the designers will very few new ideas are remaking old games and add what is called economies to the new more robust games. The new games were conceived several years ago to compete with fortnight. That is a problem because people do not want the new opportunities to spend their money. These games are failing and the industry does not know why.

I have begun first on the art side asking what can I do very differently. I have the engineering/computer chops to study and do it. The infrastructure today is excellent and supportive.

We my kid sister WendyBG, I was taught advanced value investing when I was about 11 years old by our grandmother.

I am jealous of that. While we knew our folks did some investing, mostly via annuities and the occasional off beat investments that inevitably failed, like the orange grove acreage in FL, we did not speak about money in our family. Taboo. I took a different approach with our kids, hoping that I could at least offer them some possible ways to bypass some of my errors. They had their own to make, so why duplicate mine? One thing in particular that I noted as a kid was that it rather took my parents by surprise when they realized they could retire early. At 19 I figured if they could stumble into it, maybe I could actively get there faster by paying attention to retirement funding. Spoiler alert...we did.

I always liked science, and went to a STEM high school school on steroids.

We were rarely exposed to science, and I discovered Chemistry in College when I started trying to understand nutrition based remedies for heart disease, when Dad was facing the need for a triple bypass. It was so cool that someone could finally provide me with ways to answer the eternal WHY something happens, instead of just telling me to memorize it. I was raised very focused on foreign language education and had little concept of other possible career choices. I did not ever want to be responsible for truncating the curiosity of a child of mine, thus the recommendation to explore all when you can and it's free to do so. Make good use of your electives!

I absolutely believe that the broader the field that you are exposed to, the more likely you will find an analog as a novel solution in a different field.

YES. If you live in a box, how will you ever learn to think outside of it?

While there may be an advantage to getting a job by acquiring the appropriate college degree, your success in that job is more likely to be dependent on you previous experience.

Just getting a degree isn't enough anymore, in this day and age when graduates also have to prove they are able to function in an adult world. It's no longer a given. Why not give yourself an advantage in the career search by providing direct experience in the field you are looking to enter?

IP

IP

My Jewish grandfather and my dad never spoke money. Both hated the topic.

The Irish side were reasonably good business people and highly educated.

I have had a big differences with my dad over business and economics.

For sure IP.

I'm just about wrapping up my professional career and I've managed groups ranging from 10s to 1000s. Currently back to right around a 100 so close enough to have at least a high level feel for most of the people in my area.

One thing that is immediately noticeable theses days in our first year/job after college employees (all engineers of some kind) is those who have worked and those who have not worked in college or HS beforehand. Those who have some work experience almost inevitably end up getting to our lower mid-rung quicker.

I think parents who don't insist on some type of work experience through college are doing their children no favors.

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