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After about 27 years, TMF finally got sick of my shenanigans and dropped the ban hammer on me. I probably had it coming. Wendy stated a thread about whales, but noted she wasn't allowed to use the word "dick" as in Moby Dick or even mention the type of whale discussed in the article. The thread devolved into a discussion of TMFMint's heavy handed moderation. flyerboys wrote an eloquent post (as he always does) directed to TMFMints explaining essentially that we've all been around a long time, we all know each other, we know what we're getting into, and we are all okay with seeing the word "sperm" used in a discussion about a certain type of whale.

I responded to his post chiding him, saying that the rules were there for his benefit, and if we start making exceptions for sperm whales then we'll start making exceptions for other things, and while he might not understand now, in the future he'll understand the importance of enforcing purity of thought. Something like that. And I signed it TMFMints.

I thought it was funny. TMFMints DID NOT think it was funny. She pulled my post and all the other posts criticizing the moderation policies and gave me the boot just to be on the safe side. The rules really are there for our benefit, apparently.

If someone sees this and can pass along my farewells I would appreciate it. It was a great run. I learned tons and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Too many great and informative posters to even mention, but you folks were the reason I stuck around so long. If I frequently disagreed with you, it is because I frequently found your posts interesting enough to read. I was educated, enriched, and amused. Fair winds and following seas, everyone.

I think TMF's METaR board is not long for this world.

Don't lose too much sleep.
Groucho Marx’s letter of resignation to the Friars’ Club: “I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members.”

Yes, their automated bad word filters were pretty silly. I tried to have a discussion at the old fool.com about a fine company called Alimentation Couche-Tard (roughly, "Night Owl Foods" in French), and it had to be referred to as The Company That Can Not Be Named. Imagine the reaction I got from using the word niggardly in front of an audience who didn't know what it meant, nor what it was (and wasn't) etymologically related to. It means "miserly", and has been in use for about 700 years.

Jim

(there are no mungofitch posts at the "new" fool.com site--both they, and I, seem to be surviving just fine)

A couple of weeks into their conversion, I couldn't log in using any of my "normal" browsers. Their technical support people went as far as to give me a free "paid" account to see if it would work - still not. The only way I am successful at loging in is using the Tor Onion browser (something I tend to avoid using as I always figure it's gotta ring a bell somewhere). So, I figure it's some incompatability with one of the layers of internet "defense" I've set up on my system (maybe, now that I think of it, it might be a filter in the C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\host file). Not a huge loss as the new format is a PITA anyway.

So I peek (I can still lurk, just not log in) weekly at WendyBG's "Control Panel" (as there is a "graphic" advantage to the TMF site), but otherwise I find Shrewd'm has less junk, more usable content and far less effort to use.

I don't have any reason to wish for the failure of the TMF site as it keeps the noise level down here, but with the exception of the occaisional post from Wendy, RIP as far as I'm concerned.

Jeff

hey - it was a great way to go out......

"Better to burn out than to fade away."

but with the exception of the occaisional post from Wendy

Was so glad to see her finally post over here. The noise to signal ratio is just too high there, and I have to be excessively bored, (rare,) to venture back.

Post here. I read everything you write.
Wendy

Larry.....

....David??

Is that you?

LOL

hey - it was a great way to go out......

"Better to burn out than to fade away."

There was definitely some of that. TMF gets a lot of criticism for their moderation being arbitrary. I don't think that's the case at all. They've always been pretty consistent. Whenever I've seen a post that has been pulled or had one of my own pulled the reason is always apparent. People complain about getting their posts pulled all the time, but I'd say in 98% of the cases they knew or should have known exactly where the red line was.

In this case I was 100% sure :) I get why TMF wants a family friendly environment. But the audience is a group of adults who have known each other in a virtual sense for basically ever and mostly quality for Social Security. If we can't talk about "Moby Dick" and "sperm whales" the nanny filter just might be set a notch too high.

So I wrote out a post channeling my inner Auntie Lydia explaining why the rules are important, not just because they are rules. It is because the rules teach discipline. Something along those lines. Then I signed it TMFMints. But I thought about it for a few minutes before I posted it. If I didn't sign it, it might have skated under the radar. If I did sign it, I was 100% they were going to pull it. But I thought it was way funnier signed. I thought couple of people might get a laugh before it was pulled. And no one reads old posts anyway, so why not? And hey, turnabout is fair play. So I said "screw it." The TMF nanny filter is absurd, so using absurdity to point that out should be within the rules. After all, TMF was founded on the idea of the jester using absurdity to tell the truth. And if someone gets a laugh out of it, then it is a win-win.

This line of reasoning did not resonate with TMF.

They pulled my post along with a few others which I expected. I did not expect the ban hammer. But I crossed the red line on purpose. I messed around and found out.

TMF gets a lot of criticism for their moderation being arbitrary. I don't think that's the case at all. They've always been pretty consistent.

Try posting on Bogleheads to see some arbitrary moderation.

It's quite upsetting when you aren't allowed to correct all those folks that are wrong on the internet... ;-)

The people running TMF are a bunch of Richards.

I do not know why Mints has let me skate as long as I have. But the people complaining about me were worse. Made me look passable. I have thought the conflict would drag me down.

Keeping it to econ is my forte. That is where I want to be. While I am not in exile, I prefer the conversation here.

As far as correcting people online. I have suddenly realized all efforts in the press and on social media are purposely poorly formed arguments for popularity.

Reading Chernow's Hamilton about the mob, nothing has changed. Partial information is for people to use with little regard.

>> The thread devolved into a discussion of TMFMint's heavy handed moderation.<<

I said something like banning particular words wasn't a problem. What I had a problem with was Mints' moving my posts to other boards. (background) I have been on quite a rant lately, about how Ford Motor is being run. That company employs some 171,000 people, including tens of thousands where I live, in metro Detroit. When company management honks up, it has major repercussions. I had posted about Ford hyping their new "midsized" EV pickup, in the context of the many questionable things management has done. Mints moved the post to an EV board. In Wendy's censorship thread, I said I had posted that information on METAR, because I want it on METAR. That post was deleted.

Someone said that Mints had been on the new member held desk at one time. He related what a mistake it was for him to go to Mints for any help. That post was deleted, and, iirc, that was the post that got another board member banned for two weeks.

Then Syke replied with his parody post, which was deleted.

I leveraged Syke's post, quoting lines that said something about purity of speech, purity of thought, with a pic of General Ripper, from "Dr Strangelove" talking on the phone. If you are familiar with the film, you know Ripper was raving about the "purity and essence of natural bodily fluids". That post was deleted, and I am banned for life.

I see a lot of politician names being named, and criticized, in ways that would have been bounced off of METAR in a hot second a few years ago. But seems Mints gets butt-hurt about the slightest criticism of her job performance. Fine. I'm done living in fear of two-bit dictators.

Steve

I leveraged Syke's post, quoting lines that said something about purity of speech, purity of thought, with a pic of General Ripper, from "Dr Strangelove" talking on the phone. If you are familiar with the film, you know Ripper was raving about the "purity and essence of natural bodily fluids". That post was deleted, and I am banned for life.

You got banned for that?? The hammer of justice is swift and mighty.

I agreed with your original post. Message boards need a certain critical mass to function. You don't want to subdivide too much or else there aren't enough posts worth checking in on. The TMF version is trafficked just enough to to function. You don't want to be splitting threads off or it will die. Plus we've discussed EVs on METAR for ages. That's one of the core topics. Definitely an economic trend, so not off topic.

Fine. I'm done living in fear of two-bit dictators.

No one will be knocking on your door at midnight from the fool.

Over here, we need VPNs to work with this forum.

>>You got banned for that??<<

Either that, or the initial post objecting to my post about Ford being moved, without the courtesy of Mints asking me, before doing it. I never got an e-mail telling me I was tossed. I couldn't log in. I followed the link in the e-mail about the General Ripper post being tossed, and clicked on my name, then saw the "suspended" message.

>>The hammer of justice is swift and mighty. <<

Mighty petty?

>>Plus we've discussed EVs on METAR for ages.<<

Yes, the Tesla threads are epic, usually 100+ comments. Seems I recall other Tesla/EV threads being moved in recent months.

Steve

Steve and Timer123:

This site may look familier, but that's due to the hard work of a single very generous genleman.

While it looks similar to TMF's it is NOT TMF! The people who have gravitated here from TMF did so for a number of reasons - not the least of which was the bullshit to noise ratio there became too high. As far as I'm concerned (not that I have any more say than most here), you are welcome to post if you are adding to the functionality of the Macroeconomic Trends And Risks web site - but if you decide to bring the leval of political nonsense that you were eventually thrown out from TMFs, plese take it to the US Policy or Political Assylum boards - it doesn't belong here.

Jeff

Jeff

As I've said I want econ.

I was not banned by the fool.

but if you decide to bring the leval of political nonsense that you were eventually thrown out from TMFs, plese take it to the US Policy or Political Assylum boards - it doesn't belong here.

Just to be clear, the thing that got us booted wasn't political. It was agreeing with your sister that the level of moderation made civil discourse difficult.

Sykesix,

That is the problem with the fool.

We have a problem with us. Many of us want economics over opinions about other stuff choking the boards.

It is not that any of us have to have power, but how hard is it to respect that we talk econ, not economic indoctrination left or right?

The TMF version is trafficked just enough to to function. You don't want to be splitting threads off or it will die. Plus we've discussed EVs on METAR for ages. That's one of the core topics. Definitely an economic trend, so not off topic.

I have a different, and as usual more pessimistic take.

The free boards at the Fool are a drain. They exist by legacy, not because the contribute anything to the product. They are now off happily selling subscriptions and whatnot, and apparently doing pretty well at it, well enough to employ around 600 people, or so Google thinks.

By history they began as “free” boards on AOL, compensated by AOL for the user time spent (way back when AOL was a pay-by-the-minute service). [The Fool was one of the first AOL products in their experiment lab, and one of the few to actually turn into something.]

When AOL went free and started charging media to have a presence, the Fool tried to make it on banner advertising, which may or may not have been successful at first but eventually all of that cratered and banner ads are small potatoes anymore. Note the Fool 2.0 (it’s actually 3.0 by my count) has no advertising at all, nor does Shrewdm.com. <—-And this is where I put in a plug for public support, as Manlobbi has costs involved in running this thing. I am on a small monthly payment plan, same as I give Wikipedia and a few others. Allow me to make it easy: https://www.shrewdm.com/MB?support So I throw a less-than-Starbucks in once a month. Heck, I probably put more in the tip jar at Subway, and that’s also unnecessary, except I am a good person. {Goofy Beams Brightly}

Anyway, my theory is that the new-ish overlords at the Fool simply don’t care abut the free boards. If they live, fine. If they die, fine. It would be nicer if they died a natural death rather than were murdered, which might cause a minor backlash, but otherwise, who gives a shit? (Whoops, I said a bad word. No censorship! Hooray!)

They have someone in charge who doesn’t get how boards work, or perhaps does but makes poor decisions, or perhaps is enamored with her power, or perhaps none of the above, but who is not helping . I was told by a Fool employee long ago that the free boards were a marketing tool, helpful in introducing new people to the organization - but based on the repetitiveness of the names and the lack of new ones, I’d guess that time has passed as well. Thus my pessimistic view that they just don’t care very much. I suspect only a few brain cells are spent even thinking about it.

Saul’s board brought in hundreds, maybe thousands of newbies to the Fool, but that’s gone - and what’s left? The cost of renting the hosting platform and 1/3 of an employee. (Hard to believe it’s more than that.) So it’s not terribly expensive, but also no longer terribly important.

I have gotten used to the new Fool format; I like the ability to correct posts after-the-fact and the ability to put up graphics (but that’s more storage and electron intensive) so I’m glad to have both. But given the randomness of the decision making there I suspect it’s only a matter of time before I, too, am given the dreaded email and lockout. Ah well, 30 years of my life. Not relevant, apparently.

Thank you for the support link. I set up a recurring donation via Pay-Pal.

Anyway, my theory is that the new-ish overlords at the Fool simply don’t care abut the free boards. If they live, fine. If they die, fine. It would be nicer if they died a natural death rather than were murdered, which might cause a minor backlash, but otherwise, who gives a shit? (Whoops, I said a bad word. No censorship! Hooray!)

Totally agree. My theory is that enough of the paid users also use the free boards and that's why they the free boards around. And there isn't much incremental cost to keeping the free boards (one has a paywall, one doesn't. BFD). But they don't want any hassle with the free boards either. The most popular board was Political Asylum. They shut that one down when they transitioned. Why? My guess is it took the most time to moderate.

So TMF tolerates the free boards, but that's as far as it goes. The axe is swift and sharp when it comes to problematic posters. I was surprised they booted Steve. I didn't have him pegged as problematic. Now that I think about it, I don't think I was problematic either. But the axe isn't paid to think.

I didn't have him pegged as problematic. Now that I think about it, I don't think I was problematic either.

Seems the magic word is anything critical of Mints. There have been some remarkable things said today, on threads about the $4T of tariff revenue, and the BLS person being tossed. A couple posts pulled, but no-one banned from the Fool. I better stop, before someone starts waggling their finger at me again. :^)

Steve

Ah well, 30 years of my life. Not relevant, apparently.

They already made the absurdly stupid decision to throw away ALL the previous post history. Despite the low-ish signal to noise ratio, there were plenty of gems in there that could be learned from (especially in the AI era).

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