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Author: esurfer   😊 😞
Number: of 15062 
Subject: How does a Franch Citizen Buy US Stock in France_Q
Date: 08/14/2024 2:48 AM
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I think Jim, Mougufitch, can answer this question since he lives nearby. Or anyone else.

I would like to make a gift to a child of a family member living in France who are French citizen.

Are there discount brokers in France comparable to those in the US? Any recommendation as to which ones? Names?

Are there non-taxed accounts for children's education such as a Roth Educational IRA account?

Thanks
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Author: mungofitch 🐝🐝🐝🐝 SILVER
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Number: of 15062 
Subject: Re: How does a Franch Citizen Buy US Stock in France_Q
Date: 08/14/2024 5:15 AM
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It can be done a couple of ways.

I don't know which specific French brokers offer which features, but there are general categories.

Most basic stock brokers in France will, I believe, want/require you to hold cash only in Euros, and by extension require you to buy only things listed in Europe. This is the easiest type of account to open. The Euro thing isn't a show stopper in this particular case as Berkshire is listed and trades in Euros on IBIS, the Deutsche Bourse electronic exchange. You can buy and sell the shares in Euros without any conversion to or from dollars. But this approach is pretty limiting over time. I would expect high fees, many restrictions, bad service, and hard sell on terrible high fee products. This can be a simpler "starter" account, perhaps at the person's bank, just don't forget to reevaluate the choice again.

In the middle ground are higher end brokers, generally add-ons to a "wealth management" bank account. High fees, but a full range of products, and accounts in multiple currencies. But very high minimum account size.

I use Interactive Brokers. They allow accounts by French residents and citizens. Frenchresidents are legally supported out of IB's subsidiary in Ireland, but it's basically all the same thing. Opening an account at IB can be a few more steps, there is a minimum commission/data charge of about $10 a month, and their interface is a bit daunting the first couple of hours. But the commissions are too small to bother tracking, and they plug you directly into the global forex market so you never pay a currency spread again. They will generally let you trade any product, including bonds and funds, that it is legal for you to own based on where you live. This is an excellent longer term choice for when you know what you want in the way of capital allocation.

Just a reminder, it is forbidden for EU residents to own US mutual funds or ETFs. Nobody asked, but this catches people by surprise sometimes. (as Monaco is not in the EU, this rule does not affect me)

Jim

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Author: DTB   😊 😞
Number: of 15062 
Subject: Re: How does a Franch Citizen Buy US Stock in France_Q
Date: 08/14/2024 1:46 PM
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I use Interactive Brokers. They allow accounts by French residents and citizens. Frenchresidents are legally supported out of IB's subsidiary in Ireland, but it's basically all the same thing. Opening an account at IB can be a few more steps, there is a minimum commission/data charge of about $10 a month, and their interface is a bit daunting the first couple of hours. But the commissions are too small to bother tracking, and they plug you directly into the global forex market so you never pay a currency spread again. They will generally let you trade any product, including bonds and funds, that it is legal for you to own based on where you live. This is an excellent longer term choice for when you know what you want in the way of capital allocation.


Interactive Brokers used to have a $10 monthly minimum but I think this was removed a long time ago, and I can't find any mention of it on the ibkr website. Jim probably trades enough to get over $10 anyways, but maybe he or someone else who has an account in Europe could check to see if this really applies any more.

Also, I find that the big benefit of having an ibkr account are, in this order:

-better prices on trades, and
-excellent forex trades (already mentioned by Jim); but also
-low interest on margin loans,
-access to markets that most brokers ignore (Japan, Eastern Europe, Scandinavia, Australia, etc.), and
-rebates on shares lent out for short trades.

The relative important of these features will be different from one investor to another, and most of these will not make much of a difference, if you just want a simple account with a few Berkshire shares held indefinitely, but the monthly minimum would be a killer, if it still exists. However, I think that erstwhile drawback has now disappeared.

DTB

Addendum: the minimum monthly fee seems to have been removed, at least 3 years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/com...
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Author: mungofitch 🐝🐝🐝🐝 SILVER
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Number: of 15062 
Subject: Re: How does a Franch Citizen Buy US Stock in France_Q
Date: 08/14/2024 3:21 PM
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Addendum: the minimum monthly fee seems to have been removed...

I haven't really looked into this, but I thought it was removed only for their new entry-level account type "IBKR Lite" which had other disadvantages? Different interest rates, etc.
The headline of that account is "no commissions", but (there ain't no thing as a free lunch) it doesn't include the usual "smart routing" which is what gets you the best executions. Payment for order flow??
But at a quick glance, maybe you're right, it seems there is no longer a minimum maintenance fee for either account tier.

Sorry for not being more specific.

Jim
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Author: DTB   😊 😞
Number: of 15062 
Subject: Re: How does a Franch Citizen Buy US Stock in France_Q
Date: 08/14/2024 3:53 PM
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I haven't really looked into this, but I thought it was removed only for their new entry-level account type "IBKR Lite" which had other disadvantages? Different interest rates, etc.
The headline of that account is "no commissions", but (there ain't no thing as a free lunch) it doesn't include the usual "smart routing" which is what gets you the best executions. Payment for order flow??
But at a quick glance, maybe you're right, it seems there is no longer a minimum maintenance fee for either account tier.



It turns out it's 2 separate things.

First, IBKR introduced IBKR Lite in the US in 2019, without the $10 minimum monthly fee. They were responding to their competitors' moves to no commission trading, where their competitors made it up by selling order flow, something IBKR has always refused to do. In order to remain competitive, they split their service into 2: their traditional service that they renamed IBKR Pro in the US and Canada, which still had low commissions (usually $1), low interest rates charged on loans, minimum monthly fee, etc., and IBKR Lite, which had no commissions, but charged higher rates, sold order flow, etc, like their competitors. At the time, I remember they actually encouraged their clients to remain with the 'Pro' version which would provide for lower overall costs for most clients, but they didn't want to lose market share of people for whom no commissions was the overriding concern. European clients apparently have continued to only have the equivalent of IBKR Pro, so this isn't an issue for them.

Then, in July 2021, they removed the $10 minimum monthly fee from IBKR Pro in North America and in accounts outide NA as well: https://www.financemagnates.com/forex/brokers/inte...


BTW, I should have mentioned that this is of interest to me both as a client of about 15 years' standing and as an investor for the past 10 years or so. As a client, I think they are wonderful, similar to the way I feel about Costco, Amazon, Apple and CoucheTard, and it may be no coincidence that these have turned out to be great investments. IBKR trades at about 25 times earnings, grows its assets under management by about 20% a year like clockwork, has a low-cost advantage that makes their margins improve as they get bigger, and it is an investment I intend to hold onto for a long time.

If anyone can think of other companies that combine fierce customer loyalty, a dedication to providing low cost to the customer (doesn't quite apply to Apple!), and honest conservative management, I would be delighted to add them to my list of companies to follow as potential investments.
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Author: StevnFool   😊 😞
Number: of 15062 
Subject: Re: How does a Franch Citizen Buy US Stock in France_Q
Date: 08/23/2024 4:38 PM
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Sorry I am a bit late to this one. I can confirm:
- I live in the EU (Ireland)
- I have an account with IBKR Ireland.
- It is a traditional account, not an IBKR Lite account.
- Most months I make no trades.
- The only fees I pay every month are data fees. These are unbundled so I pay for 4 - 6 different sets of data and am charged separately for each. I forget what I am paying for at this stage but I think it covers US stocks, US options, forex and possibly US futures.
- Total fees each month including VAT is €6 - €7.
- I could presumably reduce or eliminate this by unsubscribing to some or all of the data.
- I don't pay any other minimum account fee and haven't done for several years.

As an aside, I still own one US ETF which I've held since before I was blocked from doing so by EU regulations. I believe it is still possible to acquire US ETF via options - sell an in-the-money PUT such that you will be assigned the shares - but I have not done this.

StevnFool
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