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Author: onepoorguy 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: why you can eat tomatoes
Date: 02/23/2025 1:36 PM
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They are nightshades, which are generally deadly to humans.

https://www.sciencealert.com/tomatoes-dont-kill-hu...

They also mention potatoes. I read a while back that if you potatoes have a green hue, don't eat them. I may have to research that a bit more, but based on this article, I'm betting it has something to do with a similar mechanism.
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Author: Goofyhoofy 🐝 HONORARY
SHREWD
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Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: why you can eat tomatoes
Date: 02/24/2025 8:55 AM
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Since some people won’t drill down to the article, much less the embedded link in the article, I’ll just note that tomatoes were actually poisonous at one time. They got that reputation - and deserved it - because during the early Roman republic food was served on Pewter plates, occasionally simple lead. Both metals were simple to work with, melted at low temperatures, and made fine dining ware and were easily decorated.

Unfortunately the acids in tomatoes reacted with the metals and turned the tomatoes served thereon into something which would, over time, poison you. That is the reason that they acquired the reputation, and it was real, but the reputation lingered long after pewter and lead plates went out of fashion. In fact there are reports of people dying of hunger during various famines, even as wild tomatoes grew nearby in fields and forests: the reputation was so stark that nobody would touch them, and they didn’t understand the mechanism by which they had become “poison.”

Science. It’s a wonderful thing, but sometimes it doesn’t show up in time.
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Author: hedgehog444   😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: why you can eat tomatoes
Date: 02/25/2025 10:52 AM
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because during the early Roman republic food was served on Pewter plates, occasionally simple lead.

I'm embarrassed at how long it took me to realize why there was so much lead in the Roman world. It turns out that most of the world's silver is found as a very small (e.g. 0.5%) component of galena, which is lead sulfide. So silver mining, which the Romans did to pay for their empire, was producing literally tons of lead that were essentially a waste by-product. There are of course exceptions. The Bolivian silver mines near Potosi are not a lead ore and this is why the Spaniards caused the silver market to crash when they opened that mine. And curiously there are lead deposits that are not silver-bearing. Geo-chemistry is complicated. One can monitor the silver mining output of the Roman empire by looking at Pb concentrations in glacial ice in Tibet.

Anywho, lead was, in addition to being easy to work due to its low melting point, really really cheap. And lead pipes will develop a pretty decent protective oxide so the amount of lead leaching into the water pipes isn't that much. Unless you change your water source and the new water chemistry is different (cf Flint, MI).

Rgds,
HH/Sean
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Author: onepoorguy 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: why you can eat tomatoes
Date: 02/25/2025 2:00 PM
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I thought they had concluded that lead pipes contributed to health (and mental) problems in the Roman Empire. No?

We were in Herculaneum, and on one street the paver/bricks had worn to the point that the top surface of a lead pipe was visible. Not really relevant, I just thought it interesting when I saw it. Roman engineering was really remarkable.
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Author: hedgehog444   😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: why you can eat tomatoes
Date: 02/25/2025 10:28 PM
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I thought they had concluded that lead pipes contributed to health (and mental) problems in the Roman Empire. No?

I'm far from being an expert on this one. I know that no amount of lead is good for you and that the tetra-ethyl lead that was put in the atmosphere with "leaded" gasoline from the 40's to the 70's was overwhelmingly worse than lead in water pipes and solder joints. Similarly bad was lead paint, because lead oxide is sweet-tasting so toddlers would seek it out. Did the Romans go mad from lead poisoning? Dunno.

As for Roman engineering I must agree. The Roman aquaduct in Segovia, Spain is truly amazing. They didn't have surveyor's transits, yet they figured out how to have laminar flow in the channel (not too steep, not too shallow). There is a ~90 degree turn in the aquaduct about a mile upstream from the multi-arched part so they couldn't just sight along the aquaduct the whole way back to the source. My suspicion is that there were many wooden versions that were tweaked before they "set it in stone" so to speak. Truly impressive.

Rgds,
HH/Sean
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Author: hedgehog444   😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: why you can eat tomatoes
Date: 03/01/2025 1:49 PM
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At the risk of further punishment to a dead equine, I point out that lead-glass decanters are also a significant source of lead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_glass
The problem is that adding PbO to the melt increases the refractive index and reduces the working temperature of the glass, which are both very beneficial. The downside is that storing your luscious brandy in that decanter will leach the lead out of the glass and into you. Oh well. Coming back to the first point, acids are even more effective in leaching, so (from wiki) Daily usage of lead crystalware (without longer-term storage) was found to add up to 14.5 μg of lead from drinking a 350ml cola beverage for those of you drinking your cola in cut glass. If that doesn't explain the madness of the nobility.

Rgds,
HH/Sean
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Author: onepoorguy 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: why you can eat tomatoes
Date: 03/01/2025 3:38 PM
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I remember my mom would be "ooooh"ing and "aaaahhh"ing over leaded crystal. She had a crystal collection, for display. She accumulated it over decades, including some inherited from her mom. Not sure how much of it was leaded, and how much was just "cut glass". I wouldn't know the difference, honestly.

I did splurge on a few Mikasa water goblets (wine goblets are too small). It was from the outlet store, but still a splurge. Pretty sure they aren't leaded. We only occasionally use them. Interestingly, the FDA hasn't banned it. You would think that with the dangers known, they would prohibit leaded crystal.

I've been trying to sell it off since she died. She highly prized these things, but apparently nobody else is interested. I've had one listing on ebay for well over a year...not a nibble.
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Author: hedgehog444   😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: why you can eat tomatoes
Date: 03/03/2025 10:40 AM
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You can do amazing things with unleaded glass, it is just that the working temperature is much higher so it has to be done with hotter fires, etc.

I too inherited several pieces of cut glass. I certainly wouldn't store food for any length of time but for serving non-acidic foods at a dinner party they sure are pretty. One of my grandparents grew up in Corning, NY and knew many of the glass cutters at the smaller boutique companies such as Steuben glass. I have several "crystals" (basically faceted spheres) that were made as tchochkes and as test and learning pieces, one with an "Egginton" watermark. Very dense and very striking.

Rgds,
HH/Sean
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Author: onepoorguy 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: why you can eat tomatoes
Date: 03/03/2025 4:34 PM
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I'd be willing to sell some of it if you're interested.

Yes, 1poorlady is using a cut glass bowl to hold fresh fruit.
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