Of course, there are written materials with negotiations - but those will almost invariably not be released unless a deal is reached.


The odds of them writing nothing down in this case are virtually zero. Some written record of this Canadian Vassalship To The United States Virtual Slavery agreement exists somewhere.

Why haven't we seen it so we can judge for ourselves?

Right. And Canada isn't going to cede their economic sovereignty to the U.S., and continue down the trajectory of becoming whiplashed by whatever Trump decides to feel angered by that day.

You know, it's kinda funny. Every 5 minutes somebody says Trump chickened out on slapping massive tariffs on somebody but when you look closer you see that Country X has signed some kind of deal with us.

Only 2 countries have made it a point to inflict some kind of economic damage on the US: China and Canada. China's motives are clear. Canada's are as well when you consider how poorly their economy has done for decades and the fact that their de facto ruling party up there needs somebody to blame besides themselves.

Everyone else...signed a deal.

My goodness - the absolute nerve of them not to be satisfied with merely being a source of natural resources for us to have an advanced economy with! That they might aspire to have a more advanced economy themselves!

No offense to them, but Canada is basically Russia with maple syrup and less alcoholism: they don't have enough people to match the massive amounts of land and natural resources they have. In other words, they need to make a choice between a) do something with their vast natural resources or b) build an advanced manufacturing economy. They don't have enough population to do both.

China has the people but lacks a lot of the natural resources.
The United States is blessed to have people *and* the resources.

So Canada gets to decide where their national comparative advantage lies in terms of how they want to set up their economy. They absolutely should have some stuff that's Made in Canada that represents the best of Canadian engineering (and they have exceptional engineers) like Bombardier airplanes. The majority of their economy should be in resource exports because that's their greatest advantage.

Rather, this is about why Canada might determine that it's in their interests not to go along with this plan. As you point out, they're a smaller country than the U.S. The way they maintain a stronger position is by being able to deal with the whole world, to diversify their markets and their economy, so that the U.S. can't just squeeze them so easily.

They're going to find that they won't be able to deal with the rest of the world on the terms that Carney thinks they will. Everybody else who trades with them wants the same things the United States wants because Canada's natural resources are their most valuable commodities. There's a reason why their vaunted Free Trade Deal with the EU from a few years ago hasn't really gone anywhere. They need all 27 EU nations to ratify it and only 17 have.

That's why I noted at the beginning of this discussion that the two ostensible goals of US policy towards Canada are in tension. We're trying to build "Fortress North America" (or "Western Hemisphere"), and we're taking this moment to squeeze Canada based on their dependence on the US economy. Those two goals conflict with each other. We don't want Canada to increase their interrelationship with countries other than the U.S., but we are also making it more painful for them to be dependent on the U.S. to such a heavy degree.

Trump needs to take a deep breath and remind the Canadians what's at stake. He won't get Carney to stop becoming a WEF Bond villain wannabe (because that's what he is) but Canadian pols like Pierre Pollievre and Danielle Smith get it.

Canada's best opportunity is to ride with us.

Not sure why you went there. This thread isn't about whether we (meaning the US) want Canada to go their own way. We obviously don't. I specifically noted that having the Western Hemisphere "locked up" is good for the U.S..

Apologies. That was a cheap shot and I shouldn't have done that.