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Author: wzambon 🐝🐝 HONORARY
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Number: of 48430 
Subject: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/19/2025 12:49 PM
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It’s that we are changing sides….

Yesterday it became clear that America hasn’t abandoned its allies so much as switched sides.

The Trump administration is trying to bully Canada, Denmark, and the NATO countries. It just held a summit with Russia even though we once provided a security assurance to Ukraine.

It is not the case that America is retreating into splendid isolationism. No, we are still taking sides in world affairs. But now we are holding hands with the Russians and the Chinese and opposing the countries to which we have long-standing treaty obligations.


MAGA- this is what you voted for, as well as nuclear proliferation as former allies rush to protect themselves from the depredations of dictatorial regimes- which now include us.
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Author: Dope1   😊 😞
Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/19/2025 1:06 PM
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It’s that we are changing sides….

No, we're not.
What we're doing is getting key partners to, in no particular order:

-Get their heads out of their behinds
-Recognize reality
-Stop effing around / Stop wasting energy
-Get people on the same page with respect to what the real threat is

1. Get their heads out of their behinds.
Aimed at europe. Buying energy - or anything that you depend on - from Russia is insane. Yet, the Germans laughed at Trump when he said how dumb it was to buy natgas from Putin. They're not laughing now. It's time for them to stop de-industrializing themselves and put their economies back together, particularly their manufacturing and energy sectors.

2. Recognize reality.
I realize you guys have YouTube and all, but you and the europeans should look at a map in the Ukraine. When you do, you'll see that Zelensky isn't winning. He doesn't have the wherewithal to push Putin out of his territory. And unless you libs are willing to send US tank divisions and aerial firepower there, he's not going to. So what to do? He can't sue for peace himself because Putin will know he's approaching from a position of weakness. Ergo...somebody else has to be Captain Obvious.

3. Stop effing around / stop wasting energy
Western democracies have been letting their militaries go ever since the Cold War. The Germans have all of...138 Eurofighters (Generation 4):
https://www.bundeswehr.de/en/organization/german-a...

No gen 5 capability whatsoever.
The French have about 100. Woo.
Canada? About 80. No gen 5 capability.
The RAF has about 140.

The friggin' Israelis have 270. https://www.wdmma.org/israeli-air-force.php
Sheesh. That's more than Germany and France combined.

All these clowns need to re-arm, and fast. That means stop effing around with their green nonsense and listening to the Bond villain morons at the WEF.

4. Get people on the same page with respect to what the real threat is

That would be the Chinese, who have bought/stolen/bullied their way to global prominence with the aid of a lot of Western stupidity.
The Russkies are a broken down paper tiger. Not the real threat.

Every ounce of energy wasted on Putin helps Xi out.
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Author: wzambon 🐝🐝 HONORARY
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Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/19/2025 1:25 PM
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No, we're not.
What we're doing is getting key partners to, in no particular order:


That’s definitely the party line. But that’s not what is going on.

1. vp Vance meeting with leader of AfD in Germany, while refusing to meet with German Chancellor.

2. SecState Rubio meeting in Saudi Arabia with Lavrov to divide up remains of Ukraine (while Ukraine is still alive)

3. Trump castigating (former?) allies- Canada, Great Britain, Germany…. Even making the outrageous accusation, parroting Russian propaganda, that Ukraine started the war.

Why is it that our (former?) allies very clearly see what Trump is doing, while some here in this country continue to hang onto the idea that Donald Trump is actually doing what is good for America.
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Author: Dope1   😊 😞
Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/19/2025 1:38 PM
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That’s definitely the party line.

No, that's called reality.

vp Vance meeting with leader of AfD in Germany

So? You realize they're likely to be a big part of the coalition government in the next election, right?

SecState Rubio meeting in Saudi Arabia with Lavrov to divide up remains of Ukraine

You missed the point. If Zelensky sues for peace, it's an admission of defeat on his part.

Trump castigating (former?) allies- Canada, Great Britain, Germany

Canada, the UK and Germany need to pull their heads out. Appearing to blame the Ukraine for starting the war was dumb, I grant you that.

while some here in this country continue to hang onto the idea that Donald Trump is actually doing what is good for America

Maybe because it is.

Look, you need to get with the idea that while you may not be interested in global conflict, global conflict is interested in you.

Putin is a sideshow. The main event is in Beijing.
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Author: wzambon 🐝🐝 HONORARY
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Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/19/2025 2:53 PM
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Look, you need to get with the idea that while you may not be interested in global conflict, global conflict is interested in you.

Dope- the one thing we have agreed on for at least 10 years is that China is the main show.

Whenever it was that we both started posting about blue water naviee, I believe that is where we each recognized that the other, at least on this issue, was on the same page.

So allow me to challenge you on that point, and these are not trick questions. You don’t even have to answer them, though I do ask you to ponder them.

1. What lesson will China draw from our abandonment of Ukraine vis-a-vis their designs on Taiwan?

2. Our military strategy in the Pacific relies heavily on our relationships with allies- military plans developed jointly with nations in the western Pacific- Japan, the Philippines, South Korea, Australia and Taiwan.

What in the hell do you think this “thing” negotiated in Riyadh- a capitulation to Russia, ( we’re even promising to help rebuild Russia’s economy) is going to do to our relationships with allies in the Pacific?


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Author: ges 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/19/2025 3:20 PM
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No, we're not.
What we're doing is getting key partners to, in no particular order:


You are delusional. To follow Trump is to turn your back on our Republic.
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Author: Dope1   😊 😞
Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/19/2025 3:25 PM
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1. What lesson will China draw from our abandonment of Ukraine vis-a-vis their designs on Taiwan?

We’re not “abandoning” the Ukraine. We’re seeking a negotiated peace, one in which the US will play a role.

Do you know who benefits the most from a protracted, grinding conflict in the Ukraine? The Chinese do.

1. They’re selling arms to the Russians
2. A weaker Russia makes land and resource grabs in Siberia - longer term - easier
3. The US and others are rapidly depleting war stocks that could be used against the PLA/PLAN

What in the hell do you think this “thing” negotiated in Riyadh- a capitulation to Russia, ( we’re even promising to help rebuild Russia’s economy) is going to do to our relationships with allies in the Pacific?

They can do the math also. They know that every artillery shell fired in Europe is one fewer that could be shipped to them in the event something happens. Every dollar spent bloodying Putin is a dollar NOT spent on

LRASMs to sink PLAN ships
NGAD (which, unlike the F-22 and its short range, is designed to fight in the Pacific)
Naval support facilities, fuel depots and logistics support across a 4,000 mile supply line

…and much more.
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Author: Lapsody 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/19/2025 8:22 PM
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What they are getting up to speed on is that we are no longer a reliable ally. I noticed the Brits are willing to send some troops. I've never seen a more disastrous handling of peace negotiations - we've given everything away before it''s started. My sympathies to Zelensky.

We have more than one enemy Dope, and we seem to be signaling China that we won't defend Taiwan.

Trump appears to be a major foreign affairs imbecile who is beholden to and reveres Putin.

SNIP Trump’s Zelenskyy tirade too much for European leaders to stomach

Opposition builds against U.S. president for embracing Russian narrative on Ukraine war.

“It is simply wrong and dangerous to deny President Zelenskyy’s democratic legitimacy,” said German Chancellor Olaf Scholz on Wednesday night.

https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-volod...

The Euros are not the enemy Dope, Putin is. China is an enemy to be watched and we and our allies have to gear up for that too. Trump doesn't understand allies.



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Author: ges 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/19/2025 8:33 PM
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Trump appears to be a major foreign affairs imbecile who is beholden to and reveres Putin.

And he has little Marco 'the Rube' Rubio as his mini-me. What a lightweight. But when the only real qualification is fealty to King Donald, and you have a Republican Congress that refuses to grow and spine a resist the worst of Trump's idiotic impulses, this is what you get.

And everyone seems to think Rubio is the pick of the litter! OMG.
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Author: Dope1   😊 😞
Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/19/2025 9:39 PM
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We have more than one enemy Dope, and we seem to be signaling China that we won't defend Taiwan.

Wrong.

https://focustaiwan.tw/politics/202502160006

U.S. gov't fact sheet removes line on not supporting Taiwanese independence

Try again.

Trump doesn't understand allies.

He does. You don't.
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Author: Lapsody 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/20/2025 9:31 AM
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U.S. gov't fact sheet removes line on not supporting Taiwanese independence

Try again.

Trump doesn't understand allies.

He does. You don't.


Removing a line from a fact sheet is an order of magnitude below an overt act such as what is happening now. Naah, you've never shown an understanding of diplomacy or allies - which I think you are capable of, but refuse to understand. Trump supports the Russian narrative just like the tankies do. So your party line agrees with hard core Euro communists. Not refuting Vance's venture to AfD, to the exclusion of normal Germany, and thinking they will win the election means you've crossed that weird line to me and have likely gone fascist. Just letting you know what I see. You see you are telling me I don't understand because you cannot explain why you are tossing old allies overboard and throwing Ukraine under the bus adequately.

You seem to be willing to defend anything Trump does.
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Author: ges 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/20/2025 9:45 AM
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You seem to be willing to defend anything Trump does.

The hallmark of a cultist.
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Author: Dope1   😊 😞
Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/20/2025 10:07 AM
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Removing a line from a fact sheet is an order of magnitude below an overt act such as what is happening now.

I knew the significance of removing the line would fly right over your head.

Try again.
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Author: Dope1   😊 😞
Number: of 48430 
Subject: Re: It’s Not That The US is Withdrawing from World
Date: 02/20/2025 12:02 PM
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Oh, initially I ignored this and didn't read it:

So your party line agrees with hard core Euro communists. Not refuting Vance's venture to AfD, to the exclusion of normal Germany, and thinking they will win the election means you've crossed that weird line to me and have likely gone fascist

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
Sorry, but this is moron talk. Do better.

One last chance for you to prove you can think:

How does China view Taiwan?
Does Chinese society put any weight to symbolic gestures?

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