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Investment Strategies / Mechanical Investing
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Author: mechinv   😊 😞
Number: of 209 
Subject: Shrewd Sam vs No-risk Ned
Date: 02/19/2024 7:30 PM
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Happy President's Day, everyone! Fellow board member very_stable_genius made the following very interesting observation.

The 1966-1982 bear market ([S&P 500 provided only] 5% total annual return. T-Bills earned 7% during this bear market, outperforming the S&P 500 by 2% per year over a 16 year period.

So I asked myself - what does that mean, in practical terms, for someone who had the bad luck to retire in 1966? I decided to run the numbers and see for myself.

Suppose we have two people - No-risk Ned and Shrewd Sam - who both decided to retire early at age 60 in 1966. They both had annual expenses of $80,000 in TODAY's dollars, and they both retired with 20x their annual expenses = $1.6 million (again in TODAY's dollars.)

No-risk Ned heard scary stories about the Great Depression, and decided to stay 100% in cash or short-term T-bills. The stock market was just too scary for Ned.

But Shrewd Sam is a shrewd investor. Heck, he could have been a member of this board, had it existed back then. Sam decided to set aside 4 years of living expenses in cash (20% of the $1.6M), and put the rest (80%) in an S&P 500 index fund. Sam's plan was to withdraw from the cash portion during the first 4 years to avoid sequence-of-returns risk. (If you don't know what sequence-of-returns risk is, Google it.) After that, Sam would cash out only the annual amount needed for his living expenses from his index fund every year at the start of each year.

Results

Well, you can guess what happened to Ned. By staying in cash, he ran out of money after 20 years, at age 80. Yes, he earned some paltry yields from T-bills, but that wasn't enough to keep up with inflation. Poor Ned lived a very meager, stressful life, since all he had was some SS income, so he had to take a job as a Walmart greeter.

But now let's look at what happened to Sam. Despite choosing one of the worst possible years to retire, with a looming bear market in the early 70s, Sam was a multi-millionaire at age 80! His portfolio had doubled from $1.6M in 1966 to $3.1M in 1986, despite his cashing out over $100K in living expenses during the final years of this period. He was also able to keep up with annual inflation of 2%, as shown in the figures below.

I hope you all can now see why retirement planners recommend keeping a good chunk of your portfolio in an index fund. Don't be like Ned. Be shrewd, like Sam.

Sam's Portfolio in Retirement
	 Amount in	 Amount in 		        S&P 500 
Year Cash S&P 500 Total return
------------------------------------------------------------------
1966 $320,000 $1,280,000 $1,600,000 -13.10%
1967 $240,000 $1,112,320 $1,352,320 20.10%
1968 $160,000 $1,335,896 $1,495,896 7.70%
1969 $80,000 $1,438,760 $1,518,760 -11.40%
1970 $81,600 $1,274,742 $1,356,342 0.10%
1971 $83,232 $1,276,342 $1,359,574 10.80%
1972 $84,897 $1,421,511 $1,506,408 15.60%
1973 $86,595 $1,654,813 $1,741,407 -17.40%
1974 $88,326 $1,350,076 $1,438,402 -29.70%
1975 $90,093 $921,104 $1,011,197 31.60%
1976 $91,895 $1,238,840 $1,330,735 19.20%
1977 $93,733 $1,492,503 $1,586,236 -11.50%
1978 $95,607 $1,308,212 $1,403,819 1.10%
1979 $97,520 $1,321,741 $1,419,261 12.30%
1980 $99,470 $1,494,360 $1,593,830 25.80%
1981 $101,459 $1,903,579 $2,005,038 -9.70%
1982 $103,489 $1,707,061 $1,810,550 14.80%
1983 $105,558 $1,972,953 $2,078,511 17.30%
1984 $107,669 $2,330,424 $2,438,093 1.40%
1985 $109,823 $2,362,404 $2,472,227 26.30%
1986 $112,019 $3,010,403 $3,122,422


Disclaimer - this is not financial advice. Consult your financial advisor for your own retirement planning. Everybody's situation is different.

Mechinv
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Author: AdrianC 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 209 
Subject: Re: Shrewd Sam vs No-risk Ned
Date: 02/20/2024 8:14 AM
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I think you need to check your numbers. I have Shrewd Sam running out of money in 1987.

Inflation was way more than 2%.
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Author: mechinv   😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: Shrewd Sam vs No-risk Ned
Date: 02/20/2024 11:42 AM
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Inflation was way more than 2%.

Yes, inflation is a killer for retirement expenses in the long run. I used 2% for inflation in my illustration because that's what we've experienced for a long time, and it's what the Fed wants inflation to come down to. If inflation averages 5% for the next 20 years, as it did over the 1966-1982 period, then someone needing $80K for annual expenses today will need closer to $200K annually in 2044. Let's hope that doesn't happen. (SS does provide a COLA adjustment each year.)
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Author: very stable genius   😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: Shrewd Sam vs No-risk Ned
Date: 02/20/2024 4:49 PM
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<I think you need to check your numbers. I have Shrewd Sam running out of money in 1987. Inflation was way more than 2%.>

Yeah I agree. Maybe Sam's not really so shrewd? LOL

Anyhow, I am in no way advocating a portfolio of 100% T-bills.

I am advocating diversification based on an individuals need, willingness and ability to take risk. A well diversified portfolio would include: cash, bonds, TIPS, & Equities of various market caps.

I am also pointing out that the S&P 500 is richly valued, by any valuation tool known to man.
Historically when this has happened future returns have been well below average. (Often underperforming fixed income, as noted in earlier posts.)
Higher valuations = lower future returns, it's basic math.

How is this actionable?

Make sure you are diversified. If T-Bills outperform over the next decade you'll have some. If TIPS are top performers, you'll have some, and so on.

Temper your expectations going forward. Save more. If you are withdrawing from your portfolio use a conservative withdrawal rate...

Or end up like Sam & Ned, both used withdrawal rates that were unsustainably high and both went broke.

Don't end up like Sam & Ned.




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Author: mechinv   😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: Shrewd Sam vs No-risk Ned
Date: 02/21/2024 11:26 AM
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I think you need to check your numbers. I have Shrewd Sam running out of money in 1987

No, that's not true. I stand by my numbers. Sam does NOT run out of money if he spends around $80K annually in today's dollars at the start, and around $100K annually in today's dollars after Year 18.

It's easy to see why. Every market decline was followed the next year or the year after by a market rebound.

* The 13% decline in 1966 was followed by a 29% rebound in 1967-68.
* The 11% decline in 1969 was followed by a 27% rebound in 1970-72.
* The horrible 47% decline in 1973-74 was followed by a 51% rebound in 1975-76.

You can check the S&P 500 annual return numbers in my previous message by going to https://www.macrotrends.net/2526/sp-500-historical...

As for inflation, I assume a) Sam paid off his house at age 60, so he doesn't experience rent inflation, and b) his SS payments have a COLA adjustment to keep up with inflation. He may have a less luxurious lifestyle toward the end, but he won't run out of money.


both used withdrawal rates that were unsustainably high

Withdrawing 80K from $1.6M is a 5% withdrawal rate, which is pretty normal. A study by Bengen in 1993 showed that a 4% withdrawal rate is safe, and recent studies have increased that to 4.5%

BTW, I agree with you about diversification. I just don't think people should be scared out of stocks and go 100% to cash when they have a time horizon of 5+ years.

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Author: AdrianC 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 3957 
Subject: Re: Shrewd Sam vs No-risk Ned
Date: 02/21/2024 11:52 AM
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No. of Recommendations: 5
I stand by my numbers. Sam does NOT run out of money if he spends around $80K annually in today's dollars at the start, and around $100K annually in today's dollars after Year 18.

Use the actual inflation rates experienced in your time period, not your made up 2% rate, and see what you get.

He runs out of money. Inflation is a killer.
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