Halls of Shrewd'm / US Policy❤
No. of Recommendations: 1
Classified documents......Cheap
No. of Recommendations: 10
Classified documents......Cheap
Ha ha ha! Very Funny.
Total numbers of documents found from Biden: 'very few', a couple dozen.
Total numbers of documents found from Trump: 'over 300.'
Requests for documents ignored by Biden: zero
Requests for documents ignored by Trump: multiple
Subpoenas required to get Biden documents: zero
Subpoenas required to get Trump documents: several
If anybody could hold a garage sale, it would be the orange marma- lad.
No. of Recommendations: 1
Number of Chinese Agents assigned to document inventory and retrieval by Biden: at least one
Number of Chinese Agents involved in document inventory and retrieval under Trump: zero
Number of days documents were protected by secret service under Biden: zero
Number of days documents were protected by secret service under Trump: all of them
No. of Recommendations: 1
If anybody could hold a garage sale, it would be the orange marma- lad.
____________
Oh, so passing the buck to Trump makes the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES not guilty of helter-skelter storage of classified documents just laying around in multiple places innocent of any wrong doing? Okay, got it.
No. of Recommendations: 8
LurkerMom:
Classified documents......CheapLet's compare:
Trump Biden
More than 11,000 documents, including Fewer than two dozen documents
about 300 marked classified or top secret marked classified
Stored at his public resort Stored at the Penn Biden Center
and at his personal residence
National Archives discovered the records
were missing and asked for their return but Clearing the Penn office, Biden staff
Trump refused to turn them over; subpoenaed found some documents and voluntarily notified
the National Archives and justice department
Trump sued and the justice
department opened a criminal inquiry Justice department took immediate possession
Trump documents included a mix of classified Papers currently under review
and unclassified documents, reportedly including
an unidentified foreign power's nuclear and
military capabilities
Personally, I'd like to see this end Biden's reelection campaign. While this could send Trump to prison, it's more likely that his other legal jeopardy will do so instead.
No. of Recommendations: 7
bighairymike: Number of Chinese Agents assigned to document inventory and retrieval by Biden: at least one
Wait wut? Are you referring to Robert Hur?
bighairymike: Number of days documents were protected by secret service under Trump: all of them
Actually, zero. The secret service protect former presidents and their spouses, not documents. Besides I thought the documents were planted by the FBI?
Oh wait, Trump declassified them with his mind so they don't need protection anymore.
Oh wait, they were just "cool" empty folders, no documents.
Oh wait, Trump had a 'standing order' that declassified all documents from the moment they were removed from the White House, so no protection needed.
Oh wait.
No. of Recommendations: 3
LurkerMom: Oh, so passing the buck to Trump makes the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES not guilty of helter-skelter storage of classified documents just laying around in multiple places innocent of any wrong doing?
Please review the difference between carelessness and theft.
While it's too early to tell, Biden seems to have been negligent but not intentionally dishonest. Biden's situation seems similar to the February 2005 case of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, although unlike Biden there was evidence of Gonzales's specific knowledge and personal handling of highly classified material outside of an appropriate classified facility. Plus, unlike Biden, Gonzales did not self-report his mishandling of the classified material. But we'll see when the evidence is presented.
And no one implied Biden will get a free pass. Although he's unlikely to face any legal jeopardy, this will leave a mark.
Trump, though? World O'Difference.
No. of Recommendations: 1
Trump: More than 11,000 documents, including
about 300 marked classified or top secret Stored at his public resort
Biden: Fewer than two dozen documents marked classified
Stored at the Penn Biden Center and at his personal residence
___________________________________
Love how you are trying to minimize the fact Biden had classified documents strewn
haphazardly, here there everywhere while Trump did not.
FBI etc knew Trump had documents in a secure locked location while Biden did not.
Apparently FBI etc was not aware Biden had classified documents strewed all over in unsafe locations.
Trump, a sitting President had the authority to declassified documents while Biden, then a VP did not have any authority to declassify anything.
Trump's crime? He did not turn over the documents in the allotted time line.
Biden's crime?....Well, let's wait and see what documents he had that may tie in with Hunter, money laundering, China deals and who knows what more.
Be worried, very worried.
No. of Recommendations: 1
Please review the difference between carelessness and theft.
While it's too early to tell, Biden seems to have been negligent but not intentionally dishonest. Biden's situation seems similar to the February 2005 case of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, although unlike Biden there was evidence of Gonzales's specific knowledge and personal handling of highly classified material outside of an appropriate classified facility. Plus, unlike Biden, Gonzales did not self-report his mishandling of the classified material. But we'll see when the evidence is presented.
_____________________
Basically your opinion to give Biden a pass.
snip
'Lawyers received instructions to secure Trump's document room months before the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago: report'
'Former President Trump met with investigators months before the FBI search on Monday, sources told CNN.
Investigators asked where Trump stored his documents and attorneys showed them a basement room.
After the meeting, Trump's attorneys received a letter asking to secure the room, sources told CNN.'
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-asked-lawyer...Investigators knew the Trump documents were stored in a secured locked location.
Biden's classified documents were haphazardly laying around in unsecured areas.
Trump's crime? He did not return the documents in the time frame allotted.
Biden's crime: Yet to be determined following a through search of the found documents.
The amount of documents each had is irreverent.
No. of Recommendations: 3
LurkerMom:
Love how you are trying to minimize the fact Biden had classified documents strewn
haphazardly, here there everywhere while Trump did not.False.
Biden had a half-dozen documents at the Penn Biden Center and the others were in a locked storage unit in his Delaware garage. Reportedly, though unconfirmed, one was in a room adjacent to the garage. Hardly scattered. Trump's documents were found in a locked basement storage area and in a personal office at Mar-a-Lago. At least two other classified documents were discovered in a storage unit in West Palm Beach.
LurkerMom:
Trump, a sitting President had the authority to declassified documents while Biden, then a VP did not have any authority to declassify anything.False.
President Obama signed Executive Order 13526 in 2009 granting Biden the power to declassify documents. Biden, though, unlike Trump, has not claimed to have declassified them with his mind.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-off... LurkerMom:
Trump's crime? He did not turn over the documents in the allotted time line.C'mon now. Let's review.
-- Trump was warned in late 2021 by his former White House lawyer that it was unlawful to retain the documents, especially classified information.
-- Trump personally sorted through the documents and several of the documents had his handwritten notes on them.
-- Trump detailed on Truth Social personal knowledge and possession, access, and control of the documents.
-- Trump repeatedly told associates that the documents were his and he would not return them.
-- When informed the documents belonged to the United States, to the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), Trump still refused to return them.
-- When issued a subpoena for the documents, Trump refused to comply and sued the DOJ.
-- In summer 2021, Trump showed off the letters from Kim to people in his office.
-- Mar-a-Lago does not include a secure location authorized for the storage of classified information.
-- After Trump decided to return some boxes to NARA, his attorney Alex Cannon said the boxes needed to be shipped back as they were, so the professional archivists could be the ones to sift through the material, but Trump -- who no longer has a security clearance -- went through them himself.
Jeez, it just goes on and on and on. He took documents he was not entitled to have, refused to comply with a subpoena for their return, told lie after lie and obstructed the investigation.
All that said, if I was to place a bet, Biden's carelessness will allow the government to decline to prosecute Trump.
No. of Recommendations: 0
Hopefully, all politicians see that their side - will make excuses for them.
And hopefully, Putin's successor exploits that one day.
One thing is shown: No difference in supporters of each side.
Pssst if you steal a car and voluntarily give it back - no worries mate.
Paging Pete, Gavin, Ronny, Marjorie - if you ever get up there -- seriously dude, hotline to the Kremlin and get your grandkids a trust fund.
No. of Recommendations: 1
LurkerMom:
Basically your opinion to give Biden a pass.You're inferring something I never wrote.
LurkerMom:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-asked-lawyer...That article is almost six months old but let's look at what you just wrote:
After the meeting, Trump's attorneys received a letter asking to secure the room, sources told CNN. Umm, this was in August of 2021, so, according to your article, for several months those documents were in an unlocked room.
LurkerMom:
Biden's classified documents were haphazardly laying around in unsecured areas.Established to be false upthread.
LurkerMom:
The amount of documents each had is irreverent.Not irreverent, and not irrelevant, either. And it's been established that Trump didn't inadvertently walk away with these documents, he reviewed and stole specific documents.
No. of Recommendations: 3
It's LurkerMom...
This definitely feels like the old TMF boards now... :o)
No. of Recommendations: 0
N E: 'All that said, if I was to place a bet, Biden's carelessness will allow the government to decline to prosecute Trump'
If there were damaging evidence within the Trump documents aside of not handing over
the documents in a timely manner it would have been released weeks ago. It's what Biden and
associates were salivating over.
OTOH time will tell what is in the Biden classified documents.
N E: 'President Obama signed Executive Order 13526 in 2009 granting Biden the power to declassify documents. Biden, though, unlike Trump, has not claimed to have declassified them with his mind.'
That's quite a lengthy article. I only skimmed through it.
Please point out the exact words Obama granting Biden the power to declassified documents. Thank you.
No. of Recommendations: 2
It's LurkerMom...
This definitely feels like the old TMF boards now... :o)
____________________
Love my new home and the civility here is a big plus. :)
No. of Recommendations: 6
Love how you are trying to minimize the fact Biden had classified documents strewn
haphazardly, here there everywhere while Trump did not.
Are you purposefully, consciously switching the realities, or do you simply accept whatever lies you're fed? Trump had an incredible number of document-filled cartons, some that mixed personal and classified items....including more than 300 documents marked classified. And he had personally instructed these documents to be taken to Mar-a Lago, even though the White House attorney had carefully informed everyone multiple times about the rules governing the handling of documents. When the National Archives began requesting the documents, Trump's people repeatedly insisted they didn't have any. And then once documents were finally handed over, it was only a very partial selection. Trump kept denying he had more. In addition, the boxes were stored haphazardly all over Mar-a-Lago.....in storage facilities, in his private office, at the golf club. And if I recall correctly, at one of his other golf clubs in that area. I've also discovered this tidbit from a recent NYT article: "At one point, as Mr. Trump sought National Archives documents related to the investigation into whether his 2016 campaign conspired with Russian officials, he proposed that his lawyers suggest a trade with the agency: what he sought in exchange for the documents he had."
FBI etc knew Trump had documents in a secure locked location while Biden did not.
Apparently FBI etc was not aware Biden had classified documents strewed all over in unsafe locations.
The FBI knew the locations of documents only after they were ordered to search for the documents that Trump kept denying he had. And the point was emphasized that the locations were anything but secure, and some not locked.
Trump, a sitting President had the authority to declassified documents while Biden, then a VP did not have any authority to declassify anything.
That doesn't mean Trump could have declassified documents with potentially dangerous impact, such as the documents he had concerning nucler resources.
Trump's crime? He did not turn over the documents in the allotted time line.
Where have you been living? His crime was the sequence of events that began with taking documents he knew he had no right to take, then denying to Archives that he'd taken anything, then finally....when he had nowhere to turn...giving up a small amount of what he'd taken, saying it was everything he'd taken....and resisting in every way he could giving the rest, storing things carelessly....etc etc etc.
Biden's crime?....Well, let's wait and see what documents he had that may tie in with Hunter, money laundering, China deals and who knows what more.
Wow....that's an enormous load for that minimal number of documents, some dating back to his senatorial years. His VEEP office was packed up and cleared out when he was out of the country, finalizing his responsibilities. And given the fact that the moment they were discovered, the Archives were informed. Biden's people have been fully transparent and cooperative, unlike someone else we know of.
I wish we were able to know how often this has happened accidentally over the years and the administrations.
No. of Recommendations: 1
Love how you are trying to minimize the fact Biden had classified documents strewn
haphazardly, here there everywhere while Trump did not.
Are you purposefully, consciously switching the realities, or do you simply accept whatever lies you're fed? Trump had an incredible number of document-filled cartons, some that mixed personal and classified items....including more than 300 documents marked classified. And he had personally instructed these documents to be taken to Mar-a Lago, even though the White House attorney had carefully informed everyone multiple times about the rules governing the handling of documents. When the National Archives began requesting the documents, Trump's people repeatedly insisted they didn't have any. And then once documents were finally handed over, it was only a very partial selection. Trump kept denying he had more. In addition, the boxes were stored haphazardly all over Mar-a-Lago.....in storage facilities, in his private office, at the golf club. And if I recall correctly, at one of his other golf clubs in that area. I've also discovered this tidbit from a recent NYT article: "At one point, as Mr. Trump sought National Archives documents related to the investigation into whether his 2016 campaign conspired with Russian officials, he proposed that his lawyers suggest a trade with the agency: what he sought in exchange for the documents he had."
FBI etc knew Trump had documents in a secure locked location while Biden did not.
Apparently FBI etc was not aware Biden had classified documents strewed all over in unsafe locations.
The FBI knew the locations of documents only after they were ordered to search for the documents that Trump kept denying he had. And the point was emphasized that the locations were anything but secure, and some not locked.
Trump, a sitting President had the authority to declassified documents while Biden, then a VP did not have any authority to declassify anything.
That doesn't mean Trump could have declassified documents with potentially dangerous impact, such as the documents he had concerning nucler resources.
Trump's crime? He did not turn over the documents in the allotted time line.
Where have you been living? His crime was the sequence of events that began with taking documents he knew he had no right to take, then denying to Archives that he'd taken anything, then finally....when he had nowhere to turn...giving up a small amount of what he'd taken, saying it was everything he'd taken....and resisting in every way he could giving the rest, storing things carelessly....etc etc etc.
Biden's crime?....Well, let's wait and see what documents he had that may tie in with Hunter, money laundering, China deals and who knows what more.
Wow....that's an enormous load for that minimal number of documents, some dating back to his senatorial years. His VEEP office was packed up and cleared out when he was out of the country, finalizing his responsibilities. And given the fact that the moment they were discovered, the Archives were informed. Biden's people have been fully transparent and cooperative, unlike someone else we know of.
I wish we were able to know how often this has happened accidentally over the years and the administrations.
No. of Recommendations: 0
Love how you are trying to minimize the fact Biden had classified documents strewn
haphazardly, here there everywhere while Trump did not.
Are you purposefully, consciously switching the realities, or do you simply accept whatever lies you're fed? Trump had an incredible number of document-filled cartons, some that mixed personal and classified items....including more than 300 documents marked classified. And he had personally instructed these documents to be taken to Mar-a Lago, even though the White House attorney had carefully informed everyone multiple times about the rules governing the handling of documents. When the National Archives began requesting the documents, Trump's people repeatedly insisted they didn't have any. And then once documents were finally handed over, it was only a very partial selection. Trump kept denying he had more. In addition, the boxes were stored haphazardly all over Mar-a-Lago.....in storage facilities, in his private office, at the golf club. And if I recall correctly, at one of his other golf clubs in that area. I've also discovered this tidbit from a recent NYT article: "At one point, as Mr. Trump sought National Archives documents related to the investigation into whether his 2016 campaign conspired with Russian officials, he proposed that his lawyers suggest a trade with the agency: what he sought in exchange for the documents he had."
FBI etc knew Trump had documents in a secure locked location while Biden did not.
Apparently FBI etc was not aware Biden had classified documents strewed all over in unsafe locations.
The FBI knew the locations of documents only after they were ordered to search for the documents that Trump kept denying he had. And the point was emphasized that the locations were anything but secure, and some not locked.
Trump, a sitting President had the authority to declassified documents while Biden, then a VP did not have any authority to declassify anything.
That doesn't mean Trump could have declassified documents with potentially dangerous impact, such as the documents he had concerning nucler resources.
Trump's crime? He did not turn over the documents in the allotted time line.
Where have you been living? His crime was the sequence of events that began with taking documents he knew he had no right to take, then denying to Archives that he'd taken anything, then finally....when he had nowhere to turn...giving up a small amount of what he'd taken, saying it was everything he'd taken....and resisting in every way he could giving the rest, storing things carelessly....etc etc etc.
Biden's crime?....Well, let's wait and see what documents he had that may tie in with Hunter, money laundering, China deals and who knows what more.
Wow....that's an enormous load for that minimal number of documents, some dating back to his senatorial years. His VEEP office was packed up and cleared out when he was out of the country, finalizing his responsibilities. And given the fact that the moment they were discovered, the Archives were informed. Biden's people have been fully transparent and cooperative, unlike someone else we know of.
I wish we were able to know how often this has happened accidentally over the years and the administrations.
No. of Recommendations: 1
I know reality bounces off of conservatives like bullets off Superman, but what the heck...
Biden had the authority to declassify documents as vice president as the result of a 2009 executive order signed by President Barack Obama.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023...
No. of Recommendations: 1
Biden had the authority to declassify documents as vice president as the result of a 2009 executive order signed by President Barack Obama.
_____________________
SO?
It does not exonerate Biden from having classified documents here, there, everywhere scattered about in a careless manner.
The number of classified documents Biden had scattered about is moot. He had classified documents in his possession and that is the problem.
Please refrain from derogatory remarks.
No. of Recommendations: 1
It does not exonerate Biden from having classified documents here, there, everywhere scattered about in a careless manner.
Delete "Biden" and insert "Trump," and then you have an accurate statement.
As a PS....apologies for the repeats on my previous post. I had mistakenly thought it wasn't going through, and did it again....and again. My bad.
No. of Recommendations: 2
'Delete "Biden" and insert "Trump," and then you have an accurate statement.'
___________________
Try all you want to make this about Trump, it is Biden who is all over the news now, not Trump.
Even prominent democrat politicians are questioning why Biden has classified documents.
'Durbin leads Democrats critical of Biden over documents mess'
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/politics/durbin-cr...'Sen. Joe Manchin criticizes Biden's handling of classified documents: 'Irresponsible''
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/sen-joe...
No. of Recommendations: 2
Try all you want to make this about Trump, it is Biden who is all over the news now, not Trump.
Of course it's Biden in the news now, not Trump......because the discovery (reported by Biden's attorney) of the minimal number of documents associated with Biden's former time in office is current. And the enormous number of documents that Trump insisted on taking with him from the White House was discovered.....through the steadfast determination of the National Archives and the Department of Justice....quite some time ago, and has been under formal investigation for many months.
And yes, some prominent Democrats are expressing concern. And the media are making a pretty big deal. They don't want to be accused of favoritism. And when it comes to Democrats expressing concern, that's a heckuva lot better than the stony silence maintained by pretty much all of the Republicans in response to Trump's clearly outrageous and illegal possession of his enormous document trove, including top secret documents.
No. of Recommendations: 2
'minimal number of documents associated with Biden's former time in office is current. And the enormous number of documents that Trump'
The number of documents is moot. One document or a thousand is still 'outrageous and illegal possession'.
Interesting though it took a matter of something like six years before it was discovered Biden had classified documents no one seemed to have known about and yet it was only a matter of a several months from the time Trump left office the FBI raided Trump's home of documents they knew he had.
'And yes, some prominent Democrats are expressing concern. And the media are making a pretty big deal.'
About time the democrats took notice of one of their own and at least acted like they care.
Biden got off easy. No armed FBI agents raided his home in multiple numbers, nor did FBI agents searched through Dr. Jill's lingerie drawers and went rummaging through her closet contaminating her personal belongings.
No. of Recommendations: 2
Biden had the authority to declassify documents as vice president as the result of a 2009 executive order signed by President Barack Obama.
-----------------------
It seems that the recent discoveries of documents at Biden's house include some that went back to his senate days. Are we to believe that Biden obtained these documents after declassifying them himself after Obama's EO.
Doesn't sound reasonable to me.
No. of Recommendations: 3
Interesting though it took a matter of something like six years before it was discovered Biden had classified documents no one seemed to have known about and yet it was only a matter of a several months from the time Trump left office the FBI raided Trump's home of documents they knew he had.
A matter of several months from the time Trump left office till the FBI raided his home? Try a year and a half. I think you need to consult a calendar. Trump left office (thank heavens!!!) just before Biden's inauguration, which was Jan 20, 2021. The FBI raid....for documents they suspected but that Trump continued to deny he had....took place this past summer, which your calendar will tell you was midway through 2022. Try a year and a half, during which the National Archives worked patiently and tenaciously, to get Trump to return what he continuously and falsely denied he had taken.
Biden got off easy.
Really? His lawyers reported the documents the moment they were found. Yet you insist on ignoring this. Biden has cooperated from the get-go. The only thing he and his team could possibly be faulted on is that they delayed public attention until after the election.
As for me......enough of this time-wasting back and forth. You are determined to rewrite the facts. And there is nothing I can say that will open your eyes.
No. of Recommendations: 1
bighairymike: Are we to believe that Biden obtained these documents after declassifying them himself after Obama's EO.
Doesn't sound reasonable to me.
Of course not... and no one, including Biden, has claimed he declassified anything. The fact that Biden had the power to declassify documents only was mentioned here because another poster kept saying Trump, as president, had declassification power, but not Biden. It's been repeatedly pointed out as false.
The suggestion that Trump declassified the documents that were found in his possession after he left office is also absurd. You'll notice neither he nor his lawyers ever claimed in court or in any legal filings that he had done so.
BTW, I'm still waiting for you to disclose the name of the Chinese spy assigned to the Biden document review.
No. of Recommendations: 1
No. of Recommendations: 1
'Number of Chinese Agents assigned to document inventory and retrieval by Biden'.
Tucker says it's so.
