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- Manlobbi
Halls of Shrewd'm / US Policy
No. of Recommendations: 16
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” HL Mencken
No. of Recommendations: 1
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” HL Mencken
****
Club 401K talking about "Plain folks" -
Well then maybe the smart nobles need to be smart enough to *adjust* a bit and see why the plain folk did this. And how it can be prevented next time.
But that requires- intelligence and curiosity. Something Club 401K so far lacks.
Even now. Wow
No. of Recommendations: 4
As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” HL Mencken
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." ~H.L. Mencken
No. of Recommendations: 0
Well then maybe the smart nobles need to be smart enough to *adjust* a bit and see why the plain folk did this. And how it can be prevented next time.
But that requires- intelligence and curiosity. - Echota
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I have been periodically checking in on CNN and MSNBC and ABC. There is 100% discussion of what happened and why. For example, the brain trust over on The View are right now laying the blame on "uneducated white women" voting against their own health.
Nowhere have I heard any attempt on liberal media to express a desire to actually understand the issues that make a Trump Supporter. They cannot recognize that there has been a massive shift in the political landscape putting them at odds with the majority of their fellow citizens on most issues.
No. of Recommendations: 2
Nowhere have I heard any attempt on liberal media to express a desire to actually understand the issues that make a Trump Supporter. They cannot recognize that there has been a massive shift in the political landscape putting them at odds with the majority of their fellow citizens on most issues.
Or even just, "inflation is bad"?
I mean, voters hate inflation. Not just here - everywhere around the globe. Conservative or liberal, center-left or center-right - voters across the globe threw out almost every party that was the incumbent party during the high inflation period.
Voters gave Biden persistently bad - historically bad - approval ratings. They hated his handling of the economy. You don't even need to reach some massive shift in the political landscape (at least not one specific to the U.S.) to get to an understanding of why the party was doing poorly under Biden, and continued to do so under Harris.
No. of Recommendations: 2
Or even just, "inflation is bad"?
I mean, voters hate inflation. Not just here - everywhere around the globe. Conservative or liberal, center-left or center-right - voters across the globe threw out almost every party that was the incumbent party during the high inflation period.
B-b-b-but...Trump wants to put higher tariffs on imported goods, which will create...(drum roll)...higher prices! And that will increase the demand for non-imported goods, which if I'm remembering my Econ 101 well, will create...(drum roll)...higher prices!
What am I missing?
No. of Recommendations: 0
They cannot recognize that there has been a massive shift in the political landscape putting them at odds with the majority of their fellow citizens on most issues.
Maybe. We'll see what four years of Trump does to the dynamic.
No. of Recommendations: 3
B-b-b-but...Trump wants to put higher tariffs on imported goods, which will create...(drum roll)...higher prices! And that will increase the demand for non-imported goods, which if I'm remembering my Econ 101 well, will create...(drum roll)...higher prices!
What am I missing?
That voters don't care to get into the weeds about economic policy. Inflation happened on Biden's watch (like every other incumbent party), therefore we need to throw him out. Because he did a bad job. Almost no voters have any real economic background - they're going by heuristics. Inflation happened when Democrats were in charge, therefore we should let the Republicans have control of the economy...because they didn't cause the inflation.
Also - I don't think this was a message that Harris focused on. They attacked Trump on abortion, character and fitness, and "threat to democracy." They never really attacked his tariff policy very much. Sure, sometimes - but it wasn't the thrust of their argument, that Trump would make inflation bad again.
And finally, you end up with the "take Trump seriously but not literally" problem. No one really thinks that Trump is going to impose an across the board 60% tariff on everything from China. He's not using that number as a serious policy outline, but as a way of signalling his general position: "I want to start using protectionist muscle against China and I'm dead serious about it." Everyone knows that 60% is just a number he made up without a lot of thought, and so it's highly unlikely that's where he'd land if he actually won. Which makes it almost impossible to pick apart his "proposal" without seeming like a someone who isn't smart enough to understand the point.
No. of Recommendations: 1
I'm not a watcher of TV political programming. I'll occasionally watch a few minutes of Fox News to see if it's really as crazy as described in print media.
They cannot recognize that there has been a massive shift in the political landscape putting them at odds with the majority of their fellow citizens on most issues.
2024
66,915,719 votes (47.5%)
71,807,115 votes (51.0%)
2020
74,223,975 51.3%
81,283,501 46.8%
4 and 5%..... determinative, sure. but massive?
No. of Recommendations: 5
Everyone knows that 60% is just a number he made up without a lot of thought
This is our POTUS. He just makes shit up and lies his ass off.
No. of Recommendations: 0
What am I missing?
A lot of voters - both republican and democrat - vote by looking in the rear view mirror, not out the windshield. Also, economic literacy isn't exactly the forte of much of the American electorate (again, both democrat and republican).
--Peter
No. of Recommendations: 1
This is our POTUS. He just makes shit up and lies his ass off.Or....he intuited (correctly) that the details of campaign White Papers and binders full of policy proposals never,
ever matter to voters. Campaign in poetry, govern in prose.
It's this scene, from
Elf:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUPDRnUWeBAIf you make
exaggerated claims, everyone knows that you don't mean them literally. It's the classic tool of salesmen and real estate developers - use "puffery" and hyperbole to sell your project, not specifics that a reasonable person would think you meant to be literally taken to be true.
If the Harris campaign made a big deal that Trump's "60% tariff" would cause X% inflation, they would look like fools - just like someone complaining that the "world's best coffee" sign was not actually true. It's not a statement that anyone is meant to take literally. It's intended to be just a signal that Trump wants to use tariffs as industrial policy, and
not stick to the WTO-style approach to maximizing global trade in goods.
No. of Recommendations: 2
Also, economic literacy isn't exactly the forte of much of the American electorate (again, both democrat and republican).
Apparently judging a man's character isn't their forte either.
No. of Recommendations: 8
Apparently judging a man's character isn't their forte either.
I have no doubt that plenty of Trump voters know his character quite well. A not insignificant number approve of it. Another not insignificant number don't care.
--Peter
No. of Recommendations: 1
Voters gave Biden persistently bad - historically bad - approval ratings. They hated his handling of the economy. You don't even need to reach some massive shift in the political landscape (at least not one specific to the U.S.) to get to an understanding of why the party was doing poorly under Biden, and continued to do so under Harris. - albaby
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The economy sure, but lets not discount crime and border secuity as massive disappointments under Biden/Harris besides inflation.
It is these things that dems need to attempt to understand rather than just shouting how bad it will be, and doing nothing to explore their positions on such issues.
No. of Recommendations: 1
B-b-b-but...Trump wants to put higher tariffs on imported goods, which will create...(drum roll)...higher prices! And that will increase the demand for non-imported goods, which if I'm remembering my Econ 101 well, will create...(drum roll)...higher prices!
What am I missing? - Carplan
==============
That Dems don't grasp that Trumps tariffs (and tax policies) will be selectively applied to move trade, manufacturing jobs, and security issues for the benefit of the USA.
Your spin was that massive tariffs, all at once, on everything which would be very bad made for nice scaremongering to win votes but once again failed to understand the nuances that mattered to Trump supporters.
No. of Recommendations: 1
The economy sure, but lets not discount crime and border secuity as massive disappointments under Biden/Harris besides inflation.
It is these things that dems need to attempt to understand rather than just shouting how bad it will be, and doing nothing to explore their positions on such issues.
Perhaps, but I think Democrats already understood those points. They had already pivoted significantly on border security by supporting the bill earlier in the year. Yes, I know none of you think it was enough - but it was further to the right on immigration and border security than they had been in nearly 30 years, so it's a clear sign they understood the electoral damage they were taking on that issue. So too with crime. Harris' return to emphasizing her career as a prosecutor, and the criminal justice activist wing of the party letting her largely make that move unchallenged, is a pretty clear indication that the party realizes how bad "Defund the Police" hurt them.
But they don't seem to have internalized the role inflation and the economy played in their defeat. Democrats seem genuinely puzzled why voters were so unsatisfied with the economy. It's not that hard. Inflation got really bad, for a long time Democrats said it wasn't much of a problem and so there was no need to change the course on their priorities, but voters thought it was very much a problem and so lost confidence in the Democrats to handle the economy. So they turned to the party that was saying, "Yes, this is a problem, and the Democrats ought to be doing something differently to fix it." Because even if the Republicans don't have a great plan to fix the economy, at least they recognized that the economy needed fixing when the Democrats didn't.
No. of Recommendations: 3
"Yes, this is a problem, and the Democrats ought to be doing something differently to fix it." Because even if the Republicans don't have a great plan to fix the economy, at least they recognized that the economy needed fixing when the Democrats didn't. - albaby
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Then when the dems finally did start talking about addressing the economy, their message was prices are high so we will help you pay for it, $25K housing, $10K start a business, free child care, loan forgiveness, EV subsidies, etc. Plus Harris was going to fix the elephant in the room of unaffordable daily living conditions by attacking price gouging by the Grocery industry.
Versus, the Republican plan of driving down input costs (energy, regulation, taxation, unfair trade deals) and driving up wages so the citizens can afford things in the first place.
No. of Recommendations: 2
That Dems don't grasp that Trumps tariffs (and tax policies) will be selectively applied to move trade, manufacturing jobs, and security issues for the benefit of the USA.
Your spin was that massive tariffs, all at once, on everything which would be very bad made for nice scaremongering to win votes but once again failed to understand the nuances that mattered to Trump supporters.Has he said how they would be "selectively applied", for those who like to go into the nuances (which I imagine is not many on either side)? Or is this another "concept of a plan"? "Selectively applied" to favor his buddies?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/trump-favors-...This time, he’s gone much further: He has proposed a 60% tariff on goods from China — and a tariff of up to 20% on everything else the United States imports.A tariff on all imports. That's what I was referring to. That means higher prices on imports, and that will translate into higher prices on non-imports as well, unless you think American businesses are more benignly-minded and won't try to capitalize on this opportunity.
It's being reflected in the bond markets today.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/yields-soar-tru...U.S. Treasuries fell sharply on Wednesday, propelling yields to multi-month highs as Donald Trump's presidential election victory ignited bets on economic policy shifts that could boost deficits and inflation.
No. of Recommendations: 4
the Republican plan of driving down input costs (energy, regulation, taxation, unfair trade deals) and driving up wages so the citizens can afford things in the first place.
Well, you've got your shot. Have at it.
Let's see if Trump and a Republican Congress can deliver a better economy with lower costs and higher wages in the next two years. If not, don't be surprised when at least one house of Congress changes majorities in 2026.
--Peter
