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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12242089/...

"Sweden braces for riots in Stockholm today after police approve Koran-burning outside a mosque on the first day of Eid"

I'm trying not to get my hopes up in that the response will be......what it has been in the past. I don't want to get let down so not getting my hopes up.

But hopefully this shows an 'exploding' minority in Europe - NOT to fall for xenophobic 'assimilation' nonsense - and hopefully it makes them feel just a bit more ostracized.

Hopefully Sweden had to spend a few bucks on security and cops - that's like a stocking stuffer for me.

WiltonKnight: But hopefully this shows an 'exploding' minority in Europe - NOT to fall for xenophobic 'assimilation' nonsense - and hopefully it makes them feel just a bit more ostracized.

From your link:

Only two people were expected to take part in the demonstration, according to the Stockholm police, including the organiser, Salwan Momika, who in a recent newspaper interview described himself as an Iraqi refugee seeking to ban the Koran.

CNN reports that the second person taking part in the demonstration is Momika's translator.

"Exploding," you say. Right.

For some reason I am reminded of Springsteen's lyric -- "Well, big wheels roll through fields where sunlight streams
Meet me in a land of hope and dreams" -- and of Penny's comment to Howard on The Big Bang Theory: "You're really a broken toy, aren't you?"

Yeah, it's not a big thing.

Please keep thinking that.

Please oh please.


You remind me of the people at the Hebdo building. "Oh sh*t! Run run run!"

lol

Wilton, I don't want to take the time to try and understand your posts.

If someone wants to burn the Koran, I support that. Not because I am anti-religion (which I am), rather because of freedom of expression.

I also support burning bibles, flags, effigies, and any number of other things. As long as it's done safely (i.e. don't burn down a building in the process). Freedom of expression is very important, even if I don't agree with what is being expressed.

Meanwhile, Muslims likely will riot because Allah isn't powerful enough to do something about it Himself. Evidently.


(If you aren't routinely offended by something in your country, you don't live in a free country.)

Will have to see if in this instance, Islam responds - OR if Swedish Islam is run by Uncle Toms.

but this is just one item.

The Europeans own the watches.

But - we own the time.

WiltonKnight: Will have to see if in this instance, Islam responds - OR if Swedish Islam is run by Uncle Toms.

Umm, huh?

So if the entire Islam nation in Sweden does not respond to a single individual protester burning the Koran, then the entire Islam nation in Sweden is run by Uncle Toms?

Hookay.

Not because I am anti-religion (which I am), rather because of freedom of expression.

In theory, I agree with you because I'm an equal opportunity objector to religion in the public square.

On the other hand, anti-semitic/anti-minority/anti-LGBTQ hate leafleting by neo-nazis.... often begets more hate. <Some whack job is inspired to shoot up a synagogue/gay nightclub/mall/school in a moment of neo-nazi enthusiasm.>

Germany banned the dissemination of Nazi propaganda; unconstitutional but I wouldn't mind too much.

Germany banned the dissemination of Nazi propaganda; unconstitutional but I wouldn't mind too much.

While I sympathize with the feeling, it's a dangerous line to cross. If we can ban that, then whatever the powers that be want to ban, they can ban. So, for example, DeSantis could ban anything he considers "woke".

I think the limitations on free speech that we current have are reasonable. albaby has discussed that multiple times in the past (i.e. unprotected speech). Depending on the propaganda, it's possible it may not be protected speech (IIRC, calling for violence is not protected).

Nazi propaganda is an example of what offends me, and evidence that I live in a free country. I can also call Nazis the scum of the earth, and that too is protected.

Wilton, I don't want to take the time to try and understand your posts.


Ditto, big time. Which is why I stopped reading them quite some time ago.

Wilton, I don't want to take the time to try and understand your posts.

Probably only the Real Old Timers from way back when at the PA, now posting here knows and understands where Wilton is coming from, understands why and what he is saying.

LurkerMom: Probably only the Real Old Timers from way back when at the PA, now posting here knows and understands where Wilton is coming from, understands why and what he is saying.

He never made any sense there either.

Probably only the Real Old Timers from way back when at the PA, now posting here knows and understands where Wilton is coming from, understands why and what he is saying.

Long ago I checked out PA. Avoided it like the plague thereafter. I'm interested in conversations, not invectives and peeing contests. So I have no idea where Wilton is coming from most of the time, and if I don't get what he's saying pretty quickly I just skip it and move on. If he can't be bothered to write intelligibly, I can't be bothered to decypher it. But I do at least look them over to see if I can make sense of them.

He never made any sense there either.

Only because you are too out left field to get it.

and if I don't get what he's saying pretty quickly I just skip it and move on. If he can't be bothered to write intelligibly, I can't be bothered to decypher it. But I do at least look them over to see if I can make sense of them.

Prior to the year 2000 the PA was basically a Conservative Board with a small scattering of lefties. Then the far left invaded the PA when they destroyed their Board, the LOOTP, turning the PA into a hellhole of nastiness. Wilton made a lot of prediction of what will come to be and he was right.
He is feeding off many of those predictions now and why you and others don't 'get it'.

I don't "get it" because he's cryptic. Disjointed. I get BHM and you just fine, and you're both conservatives. I may not agree, but at least I understand what you write. Not so much with Wilton. I have nothing against the guy (if he's a guy) except his being cryptic. Sometimes he may as well be writing Swahili (which I cannot read).

Oh...forgot to add...

I was a registered Republican when I visited PA. It was already a mess. That would have been around 2000 (give or take). I have been on TMF a really long time.

I have nothing against the guy (if he's a guy) except his being cryptic.

Yes, he is a guy but up to him if he wants to say more.

Cryptic? Perhaps so.
Dope and perhaps a couple more knows what he is implying about in his posts.

I was a registered Republican when I visited PA. It was already a mess. That would have been around 2000 (give or take). I have been on TMF a really long time.

Yes, I remember your username.
I never registered to any political party, not required in my state.
There was a time though I voted democrat, campaign for them, even went door to door handing out leaflets and talking to people. As the saying goes the dem party left me with their more and more liberal attitudes and I looked for Conservative Values that were important to me.

(If you aren't routinely offended by something in your country, you don't live in a free country.) - 1pg

=================

Also when you live in a society where you expect the government to prevent you from exposure to ideas or opions you don't agree with.

Also when you live in a society where you expect the government to prevent you from exposure to ideas or opions you don't agree with. - bhm

-----------------

Yep, exposure to those opions is bad news. Way worse than fermions, axions, or onions.

Where is that edit function?

LurkerMom!

Thanks for chiming in, I appreciate it.

Yes, those were fun days remember? You, me, Springtex, Dope - I remember also mcemerson, Mr. Cynic it was a good time. There were also some thoughtful Liberals be it DovBaer, Sdedalus and some others.

Then the Liberals came in because they - being Stalinists just couldn't tolerate that there was an opposing view point and they went on to spend years trying to ban people, FA people, etc.

Well - *giggle* they lost their boards.

As far as the rest - I'm content to just let them look around.

For beyond their Bubbles - - things suck in most categories and are only going to suck more.

They deserve it.

I'm only hoping the mayhem comes to their enclaves I'm getting impatient but then have to remind myself that great things take time....

Then the Liberals came in because they - being Stalinists just couldn't tolerate that there was an opposing view point and they went on to spend years trying to ban people, FA people, etc.

I seem to remember that the Fool found someone who had multiple entities and they could upvote a bunch of undeserving posts. I never knew how long that went on, but the board became too much trouble, and it seemed the business model for the fool was waning. That more than anything else did in the boards, I think.

Yes, those were fun days remember? You, me, Springtex, Dope - I remember also mcemerson, Mr. Cynic it was a good time. There were also some thoughtful Liberals be it DovBaer, Sdedalus and some others.

Then the Liberals came in because they - being Stalinists just couldn't tolerate that there was an opposing view point and they went on to spend years trying to ban people, FA people, etc.

Well - *giggle* they lost their boards.

As far as the rest - I'm content to just let them look around.

For beyond their Bubbles - - things suck in most categories and are only going to suck more.

And a few more names from the very early years at the PA, Vile, techie23, spikie, tgrrmm, boater123, hammer89....the list goes on. The PA Board was a fun Board....and then the libs started moving in after they destroyed their LOOTP Board.

The Shrewd'm Atheist Board posters are cordial, only one I totally ignore. Posters from both sides mostly stay on subject as far as what I've seen. So, so far I am happy to be here and follow some interesting threads and occasionally post something or chime in.

Maybe the lightbulb will turn on for some and figure out the point you are making....😉

LurkerMom: And a few more names from the very early years at the PA, Vile, techie23, spikie, tgrrmm, boater123, hammer89....the list goes on. The PA Board was a fun Board....and then the libs started moving in after they destroyed their LOOTP Board.

What is this "LOOTP" board?

And I'm sorry, but I don't recall libs destroying PA. That's nonsense. PA was destroyed by a rightwing poster who became annoyed that liberal posts dominated the "Best Of" board and created at least a dozen doppels which he used to rec every one of his own posts (and some other rightwing posts). He screwed up a couple of times because he liked to sign his posts and signed them with his original board name rather than his doppel names a few times. As I recall, he was eventually perma-banned. Liberals dominated the "Best Of" board simply because many of them wrote extremely well and lots of conservatives refused to post on PA, by far the most popular and widely read board on TMF, staying instead on the less often read CampFire and Conservative Fools boards.

Liberals dominated the "Best Of" board simply because many of them wrote extremely well

LOL!!! Liberals dominated TMF Best Of because they FAR outnumbered conservative posters, rec'd their posts no matter how stupid they were. Liberals already far outnumber conservative posters here.

CampFire and Conservative Fools board posters also posted on the PA. The left couldn't stand it and bitterly complained to far left TMFAruba and so posters 2828 and others were banned from TMF forever.

Seems to me there is one poster among us who brought his doppler army with him.

LOOTP-Land Of Off Topic Posts.

And "CampFire" originally was a retire-early board ("FIRE"). Somewhere along the way it morphed, and people seldom discussed retirement. Though, to be fair, when they opened the "liberal edition" of the CampFire board, there was only occasional discussion about retirement there. A lot of politics.

LurkerMom: LOL!!! Liberals dominated TMF Best Of because they FAR outnumbered conservative posters, rec'd their posts no matter how stupid they were.

Well, there's some projection.


LurkerMom: The left couldn't stand it and bitterly complained to far left TMFAruba and so posters 2828 and others were banned from TMF forever.

Umm, no. I don't remember 2828 getting perma-banned but do remember him getting pretty mean as TMF was falling apart. I chatted with him on TMF boards a bunch of times because he lived in the same town where I worked and although he lived 30-minutes outside Chicago, knew practically nothing about the geography of the city. He was one of the better, funnier writers on TMF but I don't think we ever agreed on anything (except Van Morrison before he went goofy, and we both attended NIU).


LurkerMom: Seems to me there is one poster among us who brought his doppler army with him.

Right, that must be it. <eyeroll>


LurkerMom: LOOTP-Land Of Off Topic Posts.

Never heard of it.

If that were true, SeattlePioneer (SP) would have been banned years before he was. He was great on the home maintenance board, but on politics he could be pretty offensive about some issues. He was finally banned for posting what amounted to hate-speech, or so I'm told. I didn't see the post that ended him, so can't confirm. I was told by someone who says they did see it.

I know at least one liberal poster who was banned for being overly harsh with conservatives. He came back under a different name (you could tell by the writing style). I'm sure others did the same. Heck, maybe even SP changed this moniker. Dunno.

AF was my primary home there. We could be harsh if people just spouted, but if they had data they were treated with respect, and discussion ensued. Everyone was welcome there. We had some conservatives, some theists, at least one libertarian, a few gay persons...quite a mix.

Then after (lol) The PA board was shut down.....

There was one board - 'economics' or something like that - still open. Lots of political chatter then.

But the Liberal Taliban started FA'ing.

So I made a point to fa EVERY post for a week straight.

Oddly enough, TMF figured that board was active and shut it down.

PA board had great debate - thoughtful Liberals were there.

It's only when the Lee-Lee-Taliban came in - and did what good Putin Talibanis do and they started getting people banned, etc.

It's cool, they lost their board.

With any luck they lose Europe.

What can I say- I have humble desires. Luckily - people braver than me are 'fired up' enough to take action :)

onepoorguy: And "CampFire" originally was a retire-early board ("FIRE"). Somewhere along the way it morphed, and people seldom discussed retirement.

Right. Wasn't it "financially independent, retired early" or something? And if by "seldom" you mean "never," that's about right. CampFire was mainly an angrier, more intolerant, far-right version of PA. One of the issues when TMF started closing boards was them leaving CampFire alone, keeping it open, which was bizarre since it was a totally conservative political board.

And "CampFire" originally was a retire-early board ("FIRE"). Somewhere along the way it morphed, and people seldom discussed retirement. Though, to be fair, when they opened the "liberal edition" of the CampFire board, there was only occasional discussion about retirement there. A lot of politics.

As I recall, it was discussed among the original posters there the retire early discussions had become repeat, repeat, repeating the same retire early discussions.
They petition TMF to change the Board name and it was granted. It was fancied to liken sitting around a campfire discussing various topics. The posters there were already on the conservative side and so revolved to also discuss politics.

CampFire was mainly an angrier, more intolerant, far-right version of PA.

That is not true.
The posters there were polite and were respectful when a liberal entered a conversation with both sides having a cordial conversation.

WiltonKnight: It's only when the Lee-Lee-Taliban came in - and did what good Putin Talibanis do and they started getting people banned, etc.


I don't remember her name. Sandy something, right? And while she could be pretty outspoken, to call her "Taliban" is absurd.

Funny, republicans spent a year or longer calling democrats "snowflakes" after Clinton lost and now they've become the biggest snowflakes in American political history.

I don't recall ever FAing anyone but I got FA'd plenty of times.


WiltonKnight: It's cool, they lost their board.

Umm, who didn't lose their board? Last time I looked, TMF discussion boards were an unnavigable mess.

There's some MASSIVE revisionist history going on here. Your version is very correct.

It's only when the Lee-Lee-Taliban came in - and did what good Putin Talibanis do and they started getting people banned, etc.

Yep, she was one of the many who migrated from the LOOTP board.

LurkerMom: The posters there were polite and were respectful when a liberal entered a conversation with both sides having a cordial conversation.

Now that's pretty funny. Thanks, I needed a laugh.

But now I do remember my favorite poster on TMF discussion boards: SimBob. IIRC, he was a lawyer out east and he wrote these long, brilliant, biting messages that were jaw-droppingly brilliant and hilarious. The one day he just disappeared.

Oh, and I remember JimiH3ndrix, another really smart guy -- a CFA as I recall -- and a terrific writer. He got extremely mad about something and also just disappeared.

I don't think either one was banned but simply couldn't tolerate the noise anymore... or simply decided they were wasting their time there. Like I said, smart.

Umm, no. I don't remember 2828 getting perma-banned - CO

He most certainly was. Leading up to that time, Tony was meting our his justice via various short one or two week time outs not only to 2828 but also CathCoy, Wolverine, Decath and a few others. When that didn't bring about the fealty he demanded then one night, suddenly, he just permabanned the whole bunch of them. As word spread throughout Campfire, several others just left without being banned, eg arrete, ArtRiechert, a few others.

But now I do remember my favorite poster on TMF discussion boards: SimBob. IIRC, he was a lawyer out east and he wrote these long, brilliant, biting messages that were jaw-droppingly brilliant and hilarious. The one day he just disappeared.

Oh, and I remember JimiH3ndrix, another really smart guy -- a CFA as I recall -- and a terrific writer. He got extremely mad about something and also just disappeared.

More products of the LOOTP. They probably disappeared when the Loopy board went under.

He most certainly was. Leading up to that time, Tony was meting our his justice via various short one or two week time outs not only to 2828 but also CathCoy, Wolverine, Decath and a few others. When that didn't bring about the fealty he demanded then one night, suddenly, he just permabanned the whole bunch of them. As word spread throughout Campfire, several others just left without being banned, eg arrete, ArtRiechert, a few others.

CO conveniently doesn't remember a lot that went on, on his side.
Aruba was as far left as one could go. I had a link to his Twitter account but deleted it.

Aruba went waaay out of his way to ban conservatives for the slightest reason.
How do I know? He was at one time friends with my son.

LurkerMom: More products of the LOOTP. They probably disappeared when the Loopy board went under.

Like I said before, I never heard of LOOTP. No, they posted on PA and a few other boards.


bighairymike: He most certainly was.

Well, I don't remember that but if you say so I'm not going to argue. I wasn't paying close attention at the end. I do remember the entire CampFIRE group setting up a new group on Facebook or somewhere and agreeing to abandon TMF. And I remember 2828 being pretty angry and aggressive in his messages so I'm not surprised if he was perma-banned.

Yes, 2828 was Banned.

Then towards the end they did it for me and Echota had sole authority to tell me not to use the term "Sheeple" and FA'ed it every time and within weeks of that, banned.

Which is fine - Intolerance from the Left is nothing new and now, many of the Talibanis are in their echo chamber on RELE Refugees on Facebook being Sandyleelee's mirror mirror on the wall.

Either way, their boards - were banned in the end.

Like I said before, I never heard of LOOTP. No, they posted on PA and a few other boards.

You must have started posting at the PA after the left demolished the Loopy board else you would have knowledge of that board. I only remember you in the very latest years of the PA.
If the two you are referring to posted at the PA it was a one or two time thing. If they were regulars I would have remembered them. The two were not regular posters at the PA.

WiltonKnight: Then towards the end they did it for me and Echota had sole authority to tell me not to use the term "Sheeple" and FA'ed it every time and within weeks of that, banned.

Well, that's pretty interesting... and complete nonsense. Time to move along but I'd be interested to see if albaby1 picks up on this thread and provides some commentary. I trust his objectivity.

To recap...

As I recall, PA got ugly when a conservative created a dozen or more dopples and made a mess of the Best Of board... which led to lots of crazy back and forth accusations. He was perma-banned which led to other conservatives getting pretty belligerent and aggressive in their messages, accusing TMF of favoritism and accusing others of FAing their posts. TMF got fed up and decided to close all the non-investment boards, a plan already in the works, but did so faster than anyone expected.

I would suggest that 2828 got perma-banned because he deserved to be perma-banned. He was pretty belligerent and aggressive in his later messages. He lost his perspective and fine sense of humor.

Whether liberals were perma-banned or deserved to be perma-banned, I dunno. Perhaps you have some specific examples.

As for you being FAed, well, all I can say is I never FAed anyone on TMF. The more crazy or angry or delusional or incoherent the messaging, the more I wanted it to be right out there where people could see it.

If you got perma-banned for posting the same kind of messages over and over after being warned not to do so by TMF, kinda' sounds like you have only one person to blame.

As I recall, PA got ugly when a conservative created a dozen or more dopples and made a mess of the Best Of board... which led to lots of crazy back and forth accusations. He was perma-banned which led to other conservatives getting pretty belligerent and aggressive in their messages, accusing TMF of favoritism and accusing others of FAing their posts. TMF got fed up and decided to close all the non-investment boards, a plan already in the works, but did so faster than anyone expected.

You recall wrong.
That dopple situation happened in recent years just before the Boards were closed.
I started saving some posts back in 2008 of some of the crap I endured, wished I had done it sooner.
Let me refresh your memory of the some of the liberal poster names. You probable weren't around back then for some....ghdude, ya, he was a war hero but he posted on a public board with his nasty posts and insults. He opened himself up to rebuttal. He got so bad even TMF finally kicked him off the Boards. feedmeNowhuman, JulieWinter and Wilsonjulie, wow those two females were MEAN. They would double tag team conservative posters. Sandyleelee, another mean one, synchronicity, Ahote, Wzambon, DVD, FoolishWaldo and doppler DorothyM, bufftrainer, Jimbo, clickfool, Nigel, Felix, the list goes on.
Back before 2000 and around 2002/03 the PA was fun. Both sides argued without the rancor that finally crept in when the liberals started showing up.

I knew a few of those names. Even met fmNh. He was intolerant of sloppy thinking, and would go after anyone for that (including me a couple of times). Nigel (if that's the one I'm thinking of) was generally polite. I think Wzambon was a minister? Again, seemed nice enough when I encountered him. Others I don't really know, so can't comment. Not that there weren't some brusque liberals who liked to attack. I can think of a few. Though most would respond to reasoned arguments, as opposed to what they considered "Fox talking points".**

Only 1 person (a conservative) ever said he wanted to kill people. I won't name him, but I think it was on CampFIRE that he said he couldn't wait for the revolution to start so he could "hunt liberals". Obviously he was an outlier, and I am not implying this is a common desire amongst conservatives. It was shortly after that when I left the CampFIRE board. Too much hatred. I didn't (and don't) have time for that. Life's too short.



**When I first hit AF, I was still Republican. Several liberals were instantly annoyed, but they took the time to rebut my arguments (and I had arguments, not talking points). We had conversations, provided data, and in the end I changed some of my positions because it was shown to me that they were incorrect. I still have the gut reaction of "why should my taxes pay for lazy people" (that used to annoy the heck out of me), but intellectually I know it's a lot deeper and more complex than that. But that's another thread.

Well, Goofyhoofy left here when this board became PA. I wonder if we could lure him back if we created a PA, as I liked him. I am analytical and like exposure to the thought, but dislike being attacked. :) (Who doesn't?) My internet seems slow. I turn the PC and Wifi off and reboot - sometimes that works. (Makes me wonder about my PC.) :) But Goofyhoofy leaving speaks volumes to me about what happens. BHM I like to listen to - he's honest. I wish there were more like him, the place would be much more fun.

As for my atheism, I mostly tell people I'm not very religious and try to leave it at that. Try.

The PA Board was a fun Board....and then the libs started moving in after they destroyed their LOOTP Board.

The Atheist Shrewds Board was a fun Board....and then the MAGAs started moving in .......

I used to run experiments on the Fool.
For many years I refused to FA anything. I figured I'd let the insults stand as monuments to the skillz of the people making them - bufftrainer, sano, ramsfanray, JDCRex, Nigel (who was one of the nastiest folks on the board), Felix, many others. SandyLeeLee was simultaneously one of the most skilled writers and one of the most virulent political bigots I've ever met.

After my posts started disappearing for even minor infractions and Aruba emailed me, I pointed out to him what he *wasn't* removing. He actually agreed and specifically mentioned at least one poster by name who really ought to have been banned. He actually encouraged me to report their posts.


So I did. After some left winger would let fly with a stream of insults I'd dutifully hit the Report link. Amazingly, nothing ever happened - their posts always stood.

I think in the end the mass conservobanning and the Anything Goes As Long As A left Winger Says It policy ultimately weakened all those people: without the forcing function of checking their language their arguments got weaker and weaker over time until all they had left were just petty insults.

Note that after all the righties were kicked off, after PA was closed, these same people still couldn't help themselves and got the board they'd traveled to (whatever it was, some economics one) closed down.

I started saving some posts back in 2008 of some of the crap I endured,

Crap begets crap.

I think in the end the mass conservobanning and the Anything Goes As Long As A left Winger Says It policy

I noticed this view infects the entire conservative internet. I was on FB in a group of conservative expats and I'd firebomb them when the economy tanked under Trump and I had some of my favorite cons where we talked and they started saying "something big is going to happen. I'd go, "You've been saying that for a year, when is this something big going to happen?" Trump had lost and we were all watching from a distance. Lawsuits, charges, recounts, yet still the "something big" mantra was still going. Then Jan 6 happened, and at first we got pictures and video of people almost tiptoeing between velvet ropes in the Capital and I was asking is this the "something big"? Then the other videos came out and almost immediately the FB group was shut down. I was only an observer at the fool. But it became apparent that the trolls and the rowdy conservatives made it take too much time to monitor. I really liked SandyLeeLee, and, as per usual, someone here made a LandySeeSee character - but can't duplicate her humorous caustic remarks.

"Under Trump"

LOL but nothing that happens now is Biden's fault.

This is why the debates stay the way they are.

Keep polarizing.... I love doing my part too.

Tribalism, nothing less I will settle for.

I noticed this view infects the entire conservative internet.

That is a big part of the right wing authoritarian mindset: they are always the victims. Remember how the German people were victimized by the jews?

Calling them snowflakes and Karens trivializes the insidiousness.

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