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Measles: We’re now at 923 cases nationwide. It’s hard to determine whether we’re at the beginning or middle of these outbreaks, given significant underreporting, but we’re quickly approaching the highest number of cases recorded in the past 25 years.

https://open.substack.com/pub/yourlocalepidemiolog...

Don’t expect honest information from the government. It’s too busy constructing bogus studies to prove that vaccines cause autism.

Got mine last week.

I got enough health shit without one of these ignorant backward tribals giving me measles.

I got enough health shit without one of these ignorant backward tribals giving me measles.

So when did you join the snobbish 401k elitists”?

Sometimes, I swear, you lead the pack

https://globalnews.ca/news/11088746/measles-outbre...

It's not just a US problem.

An inquiring mind would want to maybe ask where it comes from.

It's not just a US problem.

No one is claiming that it is.

An inquiring mind would want to maybe ask where it comes from.

An inquiring mind would have already determined that high vaccination rates prevent the spread of measles.

If we are concerned where it came from, perhaps we ought to resurrect USAID and surge vaccines to ground zero.


The ONLY reason trump and his cadre is interested in point of origin is to assess blame and absolve themselves of the responsibility for the spread of measles in this country.

We’ve seen this movie before.

With RFK’s ignorance, we will soon be pointed at as the point of origin for emerging diseases, by other autocracies driven to assess blame in order to overshadow their own incomptence.

No one is claiming that it is.

Every one of you is by implication. Come on, man.

An inquiring mind would have already determined that high vaccination rates prevent the spread of measles.

Canada and the US have extremely high rates of vaccination.

What places don't? Come on. You know the answer!

The ONLY reason trump and his cadre is interested in point of origin is to assess blame and absolve themselves of the responsibility for the spread of measles in this country.

Lulz. And there it is. It's always the fault of the Bad Orange Man and not the people who threw the gates wide open to begin with.

Lulz. And there it is. It's always the fault of the Bad Orange Man and not the people who threw the gates wide open to begin with.

Keep blaming.

I’ll go with “encouraging rather than denigrating vaccines would have prevented this return to a pre-vaccine world”


And if you want to talk about constructive steps to take now?

Again, the answer is vaccines.

Had a critical mass of people in the US been vaccinated (we used to do this, remember?), we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

Keep blaming.

That's what you're doing.

I’ll go with “encouraging rather than denigrating vaccines would have prevented this return to a pre-vaccine world”

Erm, measles didn't show up in the country because hARdcoRe tRumP TrUmPian dEplorablezz stopped getting shots. We've had all sorts of diseases waltz over the southern border for the last 4 years.

Erm, measles didn't show up in the country because hARdcoRe tRumP TrUmPian dEplorablezz stopped getting shots. We've had all sorts of diseases waltz over the southern border for the last 4 years.

But only now has the vaccination rate decreased to the point where an outbreak could spread.


The anti-vax crowd is the primary reason. That crowd used to be primarily left wing, but has now been weaponized by MAGA.

I really don’t give a shit about who is to blame. But I do give a shit about where we go from here.

And the path to stopping measles runs straight through vaccines. And Trump/RFKJr stand directly in the path of us returning to a state of being measles free. That used to be the case. Enough people were vaccinated that measles couldn’t grab a toehold in this country. But now vaccination is a matter of “personal preference” and we are reaping the results of that collective choice.

Immigration policy has never been an effective tool in disease control- unless you live on an island with only one point of entry.

I got enough health shit without one of these ignorant backward tribals giving me measles.

So when did you join the snobbish 401k elitists”?

Sometimes, I swear, you lead the pack
****

Sorry, I'm not an absolutist. I know you Bush-cheney supporters believe in "you're with us, or you're with the terrorists" and it's your right to seek 100% purity and absolutism. anyone from Adolf to Dobson to Omar to Falwell are that way also.

I think on my side, being ignorant, is a badge of honor now. It's a bragging right. And I'm truly saddened by that.

So, yeah, I feel someone can listen to proven science, protect themselves, but still be against illegal immigration, or young kids having to go thru the he/him shit.

Lead the pack? No worries. The next political violence event - is dedicated to your personal attack :) And chickenhawk me has ordered it up haha.

Lead the pack? No worries. The next political violence event - is dedicated to your personal attack :) And chickenhawk me has ordered it up haha.

Well good for you.

For my part, I’m ordering up a climate fueled hurricane to hit Florida or the Gulf of Mexico coast this summer.

And I’m dedicating it to you.

Excuse me for a bit here….. I have to go wash my brain.

There….. that’s better!

What???? Did I say all that about hurricanes???

My God, I’m going crazy!

But only now has the vaccination rate decreased to the point where an outbreak could spread.

Measles were eradicated in the United States...and now they're back. Not because of shots, but because someone schlepped them in here.

Measles were eradicated in the United States...and now they're back. Not because of shots, but because someone schlepped them in here.

Had vaccination rates been at the level they were until fairly recently, nobody would have noticed the schlepper- except as an isolated case

Had vaccination rates been at the level they were until fairly recently, nobody would have noticed the schlepper- except as an isolated case

There's an assumption you're making throughout this "analysis": that the folks refusing shots are Americans.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/see-how...

Drilling down further into county-level data can offer more clarity than state-level data, but even that can overshadow what’s happening within smaller populations, Smith explains. In Gaines County, most initial cases appear to have occurred within a “close-knit, under-vaccinated” Mennonite community, according to a state health department spokesperson. What’s more, Gaines County has a large homeschooled population that isn’t included in school district data—so the number of unvaccinated children is likely higher than official reports.

It's always them weirdos in certain communities, isn't it?

There's an assumption you're making throughout this "analysis": that the folks refusing shots are Americans.

Both Mennonites and home-schooled kids are “American”

Your quoted article indicates that most initial cases occurred within under vaccinated Mennonite communities.

But the spread of measles into the population at large was due to lower vaccination rates in that population at large.

Again, had vaccination rates in the population at large been at levels enjoyed previously, the measles would not have spread


And double “again”, a high vaccination rate in the population at large, rather than immigration policies, is the key to controlling diseases for which vaccines are available.

Both Mennonites and home-schooled kids are “American”

That's right. And what's the tendency been among that population to get measles shots? Has it suddenly changed? Likely hasn't.
Which means...there's probably another set of Patient Zeroes out there.

I posted that Sci Am article for a reason: it's making the same logical mistakes that you are.

Every one of you is by implication. Come on, man.

We never have. We've watched as the diseases wax and wane, circulate around the globe, develop hotspots, and their detection in sewage before it's apparent. We've had minor hotspots for 30 years IIRC.

Top 10 countries with measles outbreaks
Source: World Health Organization Country
..............Number of Cases
Yemen...........10,794
India............7,201
Pakistan.........6,217
Ethiopia.........5,309
Afghanistan......5,236
Thailand.........5,142
Kyrgyzstan.......4,502
Romania..........4,077
Indonesia........2,751
Nigeria..........1,892

This table is based on provisional monthly surveillance data reported to the World Health Organization (Geneva) as of April 2025. The data reflected covers September 2024 - March 2025.

Had a critical mass of people in the US been vaccinated (we used to do this, remember?), we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. - Bill

--------------

There was a time when citizens trusted their government a lot more than they do now. Restoring that confidence will take a long time time and even then may never reach the degree of credibility it once enjoyed. Too bad.

There was a time when citizens trusted their government a lot more than they do now.

And who was it that destroyed that trust? Could it be the President who lies at every opportunity and takes responsibility for nothing?

--peter

There was a time when citizens trusted their government a lot more than they do now. Restoring that confidence will take a long time time and even then may never reach the degree of credibility it once enjoyed. Too bad.

Largely because of partisan media that -often- outright lies to viewers. There has always been some, of course...the JFK assassination conspiracy theories predate the internet and cable news by a few decades. But the incessant lying in the media, and the rapid proliferation of those lies via social media, have bred that distrust.

Which is ironic, since the government is probably more transparent (prior to 2025) than it has ever been.

Now it's going to take a preventable epidemic (like measles or polio) to wake people up. A lot of ruined lives to convince people of what we've know for at least 70 years (i.e. vaccines prevent and/or minimize some true horrors being visited upon our lives to the point that we take for granted those horrors "can't" touch us).

And who was it that destroyed that trust?

Maybe ask the d1ckheads who lied about the obvious origin of the 'Vid and who conspired to keep Americans locked up at home for as long as possible.

There was a time when citizens trusted their government a lot more than they do now. Restoring that confidence

I think that was an aberration, and most of the time we don't trust the government much or are at least skeptical, but that's different from burn down the government and trust a populous dictator type that's going on now.

Maybe ask the d1ckheads who lied about the obvious origin of the 'Vid and who conspired to keep Americans locked up at home for as long as possible.

Let's assume the origin was a lab. How would that have changed anything? At the time, most experts were trying to do the right thing and be conservative. After the fact is easy to criticise and also easy to criticise when you don't have the health of the nation to worry about. Probably the best lesson is to be prepared for the next one. Luckily we now have JFK jnr!

Aussi

How would that have changed anything?

You mean, other than them being straight with the American people? And don’t get me started on what they did to school kids.

What went on during COVID was the exact opposite of actual science. There was evidence all over the place they were overreacting - the cruise ship, the fact that kids weren’t all dying in Europe (where schools largely stayed open), other things.

You mean, other than them being straight with the American people? And don’t get me started on what they did to school kids.

Dope, the evidence still points to natural animal origin, the lab leak still isn't likely.

What went on during COVID was the exact opposite of actual science. There was evidence all over the place they were overreacting - the cruise ship, the fact that kids weren’t all dying in Europe (where schools largely stayed open), other things.

And what about China? Where they shut down, kept people at home - and that was the most successful reaction by any country? We watched Sweden, who kept open, and the second wave was booked as terrible, negating the stay completely open as normal tactic. I think this current "we were lied to" is an over reaction the other way. I was in the Philippines listening to the Asians, Europeans, and Americans, and thought the Asian states had better approaches, but where I was was shut down city. The American expats were the worst whiners.

Negros Occidental did manage to stop transmissions till the third wave. We were kept at home, masked up in the cities and other crowded areas, lined up 6 feet apart in stores, but by yiminee they did stop several outbreaks in their tracks. Have to hand that to them. Also really screwball things like pulling vehicles over and hosing down dirty tires. :) Singapore and Japan seemed to have the best approaches. Sunlight killed it and high humidity inhibited transmission - but A/C could negate all that and increase transmission.

natural animal origin, the lab leak still isn't likely.
ELL.
Ohhh
ELL

This one is fascinating. Why is this really an issue?
(1) Does the lab leak theory vilify the Chinese more than the market theory? I don't think so.
(2) The lab leak theory is more "anti science" than the other, which is on brand for conservatives these days.
(3) Rand Paul had a serious bug up his butt about this one, so perhaps it is just following his lead?
(4) The "progressives" were saying it was most likely the market theory. Is it just the, "we will say the opposite"?

I am of the we will never know and I don't think it really matters camp.
Alan

2) The lab leak theory is more "anti science" than the other,

liberals a) don’t know “science” from a Pop Tart and b) reject logic (which states that the most simple explanation for a virus suddenly appearing in a city with a poorly secured virus lab likely came from the lab)…are both on point for today’s left.

Let's assume the origin was a lab. How would that have changed anything?

Could easily be a US lab. Remember who was in charge? Definition of incompetence.

Let's assume the origin was a lab. How would that have changed anything?

As I recall, there was some issue about US funding in that lab. So, that would be my guess as to why it matters to some people.

From a practical standpoint, it doesn't change anything. It's -perhaps- an interesting academic question. But, ultimately, the same response would have occurred either way. Both good and bad responses, depending on where you were and who you ask.

At the time, I thought the response was appropriate. We didn't know much except that hospitals were overwhelmed, and they were bringing in big-rig freezer trucks to store bodies. And that it was extremely contagious. In hindsight, which is 20/20, there were things that could have been handled differently. But we didn't know that at the time, and anyone who claims they had some special insight is probably lying.

And I am writing as one who was heavily impacted at the time (e.g. 1poorlady had emergent surgery on an outpatient basis because there was no room in the hospital, and they didn't want to risk her getting this new disease...normally they would have kept her in the hospital for two or three days, minimum).

None of the below.

It is because of woke DEI. And Biden.

This one is fascinating. Why is this really an issue?
(1) Does the lab leak theory vilify the Chinese more than the market theory? I don't think so.
(2) The lab leak theory is more "anti science" than the other, which is on brand for conservatives these days.
(3) Rand Paul had a serious bug up his butt about this one, so perhaps it is just following his lead?
(4) The "progressives" were saying it was most likely the market theory. Is it just the, "we will say the opposite"?

(4) The "progressives" were saying it was most likely the market theory. Is it just the, "we will say the opposite"?

I am of the we will never know and I don't think it really matters camp.
Alan

The people who paid attention to the science were saying it was more likely to be of zoonotic origin. Are you using market theory as "Wuhan market theory" on a finance board? You devil! :)

I am "we'll never know for sure", but that it does matter.

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