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I wrote this:

Maintaining focus this election cycle

I think it's important to stay focused on the big things. For me there is one - and only one - question that matters in this election cycle.

If I vote for this person, will we still have our Democratic Republic at the end of 2028?

Has anything changed since then? Does it matter than Biden had a poor debate performance?

What purpose does a debate serve these days, anyway? Debating has little to do with how you will perform in a public office. It's just a side show, a meaningless waste of time. We learn nothing about how the people will govern. They tell us obvious, blatant lies, over and over and over, and we swallow them. They yell and shout nonsense and we cheer. They try to describe how they would handle complex issues in 2 minutes or less and we yawn and boo and demand more shouting and yelling and name calling.

We're stupid to ask for debates, and the participants are stupid for participating in them.

Go back to what we know. Focus on the most important thing this election cycle.

Biden is an honest man trying his best to do an honest job to improve the country and make life better for everyone living in it. He genuinely likes people and wants the best for them. His past demonstrates this clearly.
Trump is a criminal out to do nothing but improve his own lot in life. He sees people as tools to use for his own benefit, nothing more. His past demonstrates this clearly.

Which man do you want running the country?

--Peter

That's my calculus also.

Didn't watch the debate. No interest. I would vote for a rabid badger before I voted for Trump. So I'm blissfully unaware of the "debate performance", nor do I plan to go back and watch it. Rabid badger. Flashlight. Herbert Hoover (whom is dead). Anyone but the convicted felon Trump. He (and Project 2025) will end our democracy. That trumps (no pun intended) all other considerations.

I listened while playing Sudoku, reading and other things. So it wasn't intent listening. I thought he finished stronger than his start. My wife decided to talk to me too.

Anyone but Trump. We'll have to watch the polls over the next 30 days - someone may gain momo as a contender - right now Biden is still on top.

I am reminded that no one thought Trump would win in 2016. He was considered a sad joke. But he did. Didn't watch the debate, don't plan to. Until it's a week or two before the election, I discount all punditry.

Both men are old, one is a convicted felon, the other apparently had a bad start to the debate last week. We have two less-than-ideal choices, and only those two choices, but I'll go for the relatively honorable old man over the convicted felon venal old man. Worst case, we have to 25th Amendment Biden, and I'm OK with Harris. No biggie.

ANYONE
BUT
TRUMP

Hell...I'd vote for DeSantis over Trump, and DeSantis is a boob.

“ Didn't watch the debate, don't plan to. Until it's a week or two before the election, I discount all punditry.

Both men are old, one is a convicted felon, the other apparently had a bad start to the debate last week. We have two less-than-ideal choices, and only those two choices, but I'll go for the relatively honorable old man over the convicted felon venal old man. ”

You will certainly be seeing the worst parts of the debate soon. There’s already an attack ad out. And when you see it you’ll be as shocked as the rest of us.

We have been lied to. President Biden is not mentally up to the job. Not the job of campaigning, and not the job of president.

We have been lied to. President Biden is not mentally up to the job. Not the job of campaigning, and not the job of president.

That is your opinion, based on 90 minutes of late night television. Some have other opinions.

On a practical level, your only other choice in the upcoming election is a convicted felon facing over 50 additional charges in 3 additional cases who will use the powers just granted by the USSC to their fullest potential for his personal benefit and to the detriment of the citizens of the Unideshase.

Take your pick.

--Peter

AdrainC: And when you see it you’ll be as shocked as the rest of us.

What really shocks me is a republican party that prefers a rapist who was convicted on 34 counts of business fraud, fined hundreds of millions of dollars for defamation, was impeached twice, staged a coup, called American war dead suckers and losers, praises dictators and said he'll be one if elected, wants to leave NATO, said he'll abandon Ukraine to Russia, had his charity shut down for spending charitable contributions on himself, bankrupted casinos, hotels, Trump Shuttle, Trump University, Trump Vodka, Trump Mortgage, Trump Steaks, and Trump Water, who lies with every breath, believes wind turbines cause cancer, thinks electric-powered airplanes will drop from the sky when it's cloudy, and that there were airports during the Revolutionary War.

But, yeah, Biden had a bad night.

" We have been lied to. President Biden is not mentally up to the job. Not the job of campaigning, and not the job of president.

That is your opinion, based on 90 minutes of late night television. Some have other opinions."

" Hur's team determined it would not be able to prove willful retention beyond a reasonable doubt.

Prosecutors said it was possible that Mr. Biden would "present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory." During his interview with Hur, the special counsel wrote that the president was confused about the timeline of events and was unable to ascertain questions about his time as vice president.

In a letter to Hur, the White House counsel's office urged the special counsel to "revisit" and "revise" the descriptions of Biden's memory in the final report. The office said that in the report, the special counsel "accepts other witnesses' memory loss as completely understandable given the passage of time." However, in discussing the president's limited recall of events that took place years ago, the special counsel on occasion uses "prejudicial and inflammatory terms."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-special-counsel...

Are you trying to test your comedy routine for an act in Vegas ? Come on man, give it up. Thank you.

What really shocks me is a republican party that prefers a rapist who was convicted on 34 counts of business fraud, fined hundreds of millions of dollars for defamation, was impeached twice, staged a coup, called American war dead suckers and losers, praises dictators and said he'll be one if elected, wants to leave NATO, said he'll abandon Ukraine to Russia, had his charity shut down for spending charitable contributions on himself, bankrupted casinos, hotels, Trump Shuttle, Trump University, Trump Vodka, Trump Mortgage, Trump Steaks, and Trump Water, who lies with every breath, believes wind turbines cause cancer, thinks electric-powered airplanes will drop from the sky when it's cloudy, and that there were airports during the Revolutionary War.

But, yeah, Biden had a bad night.

I agree with all you write, except the last line.

Do you really, truthfully believe that Biden is up to the task of campaigning? Do you believe he can be an effective president for another 4 1/2 years?

He didn't just have a bad night. If we continue with Biden we will lose in November.

We absolutely need to win in November. We cannot have another four years of Trump. President Biden is NOT the candidate we need. Time to pull our heads out of the sand.

That is your opinion, based on 90 minutes of late night television. Some have other opinions

Actually, quite a few we are no finding out.

More than a setback, Biden’s showing at the debate was a revelation, confirming the worst fears of his doubters. Since then, several news reports have made it clear that the Biden we all saw onstage is familiar to those who see him behind the scenes. Axios reported that, according to presidential aides, Biden is alert and engaged from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m., but not necessarily outside of those hours. The Wall Street Journal reported that European officials were worried about Biden’s “focus and stamina” even before the debate, “with some senior diplomats saying they had tracked a noticeable deterioration in the president’s faculties in meetings since last summer.” This is not a fixable problem.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/01/opinion/biden-r...

The debate appears to have compounded Biden’s already-vexing age problem. A CBS/YouGov poll showed the percentage of voters saying Biden has the requisite mental and cognitive abilities to serve dropping from 35 percent last month to 27 percent after the debate. As many as 4 in 10 Democrats now say he’s not up to the job.


• The same poll showed 45 percent of Democrats said Biden should step aside for another candidate, and 72 percent of Americans say Biden should not be running. A Suffolk University poll showed 41 percent of Democrats said Biden should be replaced.


• A CNN poll conducted shortly after the debate showed Biden’s favorable rating dropping from 37 percent to 31 percent among debate-watchers, while Trump’s rose from 40 percent to 43 percent. (And it bears emphasizing that these were the same people contacted before and after the debate.)


• The Suffolk poll showed about 1 in 6 voters who supported Biden in 2020 said the debate made them more likely to back either Trump (3 percent) or a third-party candidate (13 percent).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/01...

I believe it’s true that Republicans will march together, sing together, and stick together no matter what. It’s the core of their belief system. God is always right. My country right or wrong. Trump can do no wrong. That sort of thing. Democrats are more questioning, less likely to be swayed to authoritarianism (although it has happened.) As Mark Twain said “I belong to no organized political party. I’m a Democrat.”

Some allies of the president have even suggested that Democrats learn from Donald Trump’s unswerving followers. “If Republicans are standing lock step” with the 78-year-old disgraced criminal Trump, said the MSNBC host Jonathan Capehart, “then Democrats damn well should be standing lock step with their ethical and morally decent 81-year-old president.”

Not gonna happen. Period.

Finally, This:

There was nothing hidden about Biden's condition if you followed Fox news.

The problem with that is that Fox is, itself, a firehose of lies. The $800 million Dominion lawsuit is just the start. Remember “Oh her emails!” Remember “Vince Foster”? Fox has an audience that willingly slurps up any factoid no matter how distorted with endless repetition, but other people aren’t so gullible. It’s “the little boy who cried wolf” syndrome.

I used to watch Fox occasionally when Shep Smith was on. Their “news” hours used to be reasonably watachable - but now the news hours are less and less, and the inflammatory chat is more and more, and more and more hyperbolic. They certainly have a solid audience, but it is directed propaganda, not “news” in any sense. The fact that they might have been right this once is like the blind squirrel who occasionally finds an acorn.

As Mark Twain said “I belong to no organized political party. I’m a Democrat.”

It wasn’t Mark Twain or Samuel Clemens.

It was Will Rogers.

We have been lied to. President Biden is not mentally up to the job. Not the job of campaigning, and not the job of president.

Neither is Trump. He wasn't mentally up to the job in 2016, and he certainly isn't today.

Elect Biden, and then 25th Amendment him. Harris takes over. I can live with that. The Republic can go on with that. If Trump wins, the Republic might fall.

If Trump wins, the Republic might fall.

How, exactly?

Are left wingers going to secede again?

President Biden is NOT the candidate we need. Time to pull our heads out of the sand.

It's not a question of pulling our heads out of the sand. It's a question of it being way too late in the campaign cycle to change candidates. Albaby expounded on that several months ago, and it is even more relevant today (i.e. closer to the convention/election). If Biden wasn't going to be "they guy", it should have been decided at least a year ago.

What I do find interesting is that (from reading this board), people are more concerned about Biden than Trump. Both are geriatrics. Trump clearly has dementia (I recognize the signs...I've seen it up-close with my mom). If Biden is sun-downing, that is a concern. But suddenly Trump's mental state isn't? Makes no sense to me.

Again, we have two sub-optimal candidates. And only two. Pick one. There is no "door number 3" to choose. I pick the guy that isn't a convicted felon, and that doesn't support disastrous policies like exiting NATO.

How, exactly?

By oppressing opposition. Making it harder for certain citizens to vote. By filling the cabinet with unqualified people who will enrich themselves and accomplish nothing for the ordinary population. By filling the civil service with unqualified partisan hacks whose only job is to be "yes men" to the president. By appointing biased judges who will allow the president and his followers to twist and bend the law to their will. By alienating our long-time allies. By coddling up to foreign dictators and autocrats. By dictating what ordinary citizens can do with their bodies, what books they can read, who they can love, and ultimately how they can think.

It's all spelled out in Project 2025.

--Peter

By oppressing opposition.

You mean by having current CIA employees collude to deny things like Hunter's laptop? Or launch multiyear conspiracy theories designed to distract an administration and lead to bogus impeachments? Or prosecuting political opponents? Or how about just declaring your political opponents terrorists?

I hate to burst your bubble, but we've already crossed that Rubicon and it was Joe Freaking Biden that did it, not Trump. To the cheers of the folks on this board, I'll add.

The rest of your post doesn't square with what Project 2025 actually is.

Do you really, truthfully believe that Biden is up to the task of campaigning? Do you believe he can be an effective president for another 4 1/2 years?

That's the wrong way to frame it. I'd rather have Biden be president for as long as he can, even if that's only up to the next inauguration. Then, Kamala can take over if necessary. And this sure beats having Trump as president for another nanosecond.

Since we're posting just for the record, I'll keep it short.

You mean by having current CIA employees collude to deny things like Hunter's laptop? Or launch multiyear conspiracy theories designed to distract an administration and lead to bogus impeachments? Or prosecuting political opponents? Or how about just declaring your political opponents terrorists?

Hunter's laptop is irrelevant. Hunter isn't president, nor is he running for president.

Muti-year conspiracy theories is Trump's thing. Recall the "stolen election"? People have gone to prison and lost their law licenses over that. Also - projection, the Trumpist's favorite tool. Because Trump does it, they think everyone does it.

Impeachment? I'm still waiting for the Biden impeachment. Surely we should have that by now. It's been promised for years. That's the bogus impeachment. As to Trump's, there were a majority of Senators voting in favor of both, including Republicans both times. That's not the mark of bogus impeachments.

Prosecuting political opponents is a Trump promise, not Biden.

The only political terrorists I know of fought police, broke into the Capitol building and rioted inside and on the Capitol grounds.

Project 2025 is exactly as I described it. We've been over that in a long thread already.


--Peter

Hunter's laptop is irrelevant.

The data showed that knowledge of Hunter's laptop threw the election to Biden. Very relevant. 0/1

Muti-year conspiracy theories is Trump's thing.
RUSSIARUSSIARUSSIA. Does that ring a bell? I guess not. 0/2

Impeachment? Trump was impeached twice on bogus grounds. 0/3

Prosecuting political opponents is a Trump promise, not Biden....is something democrat prosecutors are doing all over the place. 0/4

The only political terrorists I know of fought police, broke into the Capitol building and rioted inside and on the Capitol grounds. You missed all the BLM riots? Plus I was referring to the DOJ calling parents at school board meetings 'terrorists'.

0/5

Project 2025 is exactly as I described it. We've been over that in a long thread already.

And you guys...didn't prove anything. 0/6

...bogus impeachments?

Nothing bogus about them. Bipartisan even. You just look stupid...or Dopey...with statements like that.

It's not a question of pulling our heads out of the sand. It's a question of it being way too late in the campaign cycle to change candidates.

Why? When the conventions ruled (prior to the 1980s) they happened in the summer, now with even more instant communications and the ability to reach people by dawn tomorrow, why is it “too late”? Your insistence that it should have been decided a year ago is strange. If you see a dam breaking try to fix it, don’t just say “Well, it’s too late to do anything about it now.”

What is do find interesting is that people are more concerned about Biden than Trump

Not at all, it’s simply that we accept that nothing will be done about Trump. In spite of his convictions for fraud, for rape, for more fraud, for other fraud, for stupidity and more fraud Republicans aren’t going to do anything; they’re positively giddy about it. With Biden there’s a chance to correct a wrong before it goes past the point of no return (once the nomination is accepted.)

Agan we have two sub-optimal candidates. And only two. Pick one. Thee is no “door number 3”.

Technically we don’t have any candidates yet until they are “voted and accepted” at their respective conventions. Until then it’s possible for anything to happen I hope it does, but I don’t expect it given the closing of ranks around Joe by his so-called advisors. The only way this works is if Joe voluntarily releases his delegates.

What really shocks me is a republican party that prefers a rapist who was convicted on 34 counts of business fraud, fined hundreds of millions of dollars for defamation, was impeached twice, staged a coup, called American war dead suckers and losers, praises dictators and said he'll be one if elected, wants to leave NATO, said he'll abandon Ukraine to Russia, had his charity shut down for spending charitable contributions on himself, bankrupted casinos, hotels, Trump Shuttle, Trump University, Trump Vodka, Trump Mortgage, Trump Steaks, and Trump Water, who lies with every breath, believes wind turbines cause cancer, thinks electric-powered airplanes will drop from the sky when it's cloudy, and that there were airports during the Revolutionary War.

---------------

What should shock you is that Bidens impact on the country is so bad that voters prefer Trump to four more years of open borders.

bighairymike: What should shock you is that Bidens impact on the country is so bad that voters prefer Trump to four more years of open borders.

Well, most Americans are too brainwashed by that "open borders" bullsh!t to understand that most of the “encounters” in recent years are with people seeking to claim asylum, not sneaking into the US. Only a small proportion of those who do try to sneak in undetected succeed and the US lacks the capacity to process asylum and immigration cases in a timely manner... thanks to Orange Jesus who demanded that the Republican majority in the House of Representatives effectively derailed bipartisan reform legislation that was making its way through the Senate.

But sure, Americans must hate the fact that Biden took the number of uninsured Americans to an all-time low of 7.2% in the second quarter of 2023, while the number of people who signed up for an Obamacare plan for 2024 surged to 21.3 million.

But sure, Americans must hate the fact that salary increases are now outpacing inflation.

But sure, Americans must hate the fact that Biden added 14.8 million jobs over the first three years of his term, more than any president in US history over the same period.

But sure, Americans must hate the fact that with Biden inflation has declined faster than at any time in modern history.

But sure, Americans must hate the fact that net worth has climbed with Biden and families are richer than ever before: household net worth rose to a record $156.2 trillion at the end of the fourth quarter of 2023, from $131.4 trillion at the end of 2020.

But sure, Americans must hate the fact that the S&P 500 Index has returned about 45%, more than double the total returns of the rest of the world’s developed-market equities.

But sure, Americans must hate the fact that US violent crime rate will be the lowest since 1969 -- and with open borders. <sarcasm>

I mean, seriously, why wouldn't Americans prefer a rapist who was convicted on 34 counts of business fraud, fined hundreds of millions of dollars for defamation, was impeached twice, staged a coup, called American war dead suckers and losers, quotes Hitler, praises dictators and said he'll be one if elected, wants to leave NATO, said he'll abandon Ukraine to Russia, had his charity shut down for spending charitable contributions on himself, bankrupted casinos, hotels, Trump Shuttle, Trump University, Trump Vodka, Trump Mortgage, Trump Steaks, and Trump Water, who lies with every breath, believes wind turbines cause cancer, thinks electric-powered airplanes will drop from the sky when it's cloudy, and that there were airports during the Revolutionary War?

“Elect Biden, and then 25th Amendment him. Harris takes over. I can live with that. The Republic can go on with that. If Trump wins, the Republic might fall.”

There’s the problem. It’s painfully clear to me, and judging by the NYT comments section it’s clear to thousands of others, that Biden has very little chance of re-election. The Trump campaign has all the attack ad material they could ever need. So do all the down ballot campaigns.

It’s not too late.

The Trump campaign has all the attack ad material they could ever need.

So does the Biden campaign. Probably an order of magnitude more and on a wide variety of topics.

There’s always material around for attack ads.

—Peter

Are left wingers going to secede again?

Dope thinks the South is left wing? Heavens to Murgatroyd!

Dope thinks the South is left wing?

Probably misinformed about history - which would fit in with the rest of his misinformation.

Before the civil war, the Democrats dominated across the US. But they were split into northern and southern groups based on slavery. They ended up nominating two different candidates for president in 1860, which lead to the newish republican party winning with Lincoln. So it was southern Democrats that seceded from the union, with northern democrats becoming the more liberal Republicans. But between then and the mid 20th century, the parties basically switched places on the liberal-conservative continuum, with the southern democrats finally moving to the now conservative Republican party because of Nixon's southern strategy.

So it was the Southern white supremacists under the "Democrat" title that seceded in 1860, and now it's the southern white supremacists under the "Republican" label who are ripping the country apart again in the 21st century. Same folks, same racism, different name.

--Peter

So it was the Southern white supremacists under the "Democrat" title that seceded in 1860, and now it's the southern white supremacists under the "Republican" label who are ripping the country apart again in the 21st century. Same folks, same racism, different name.

Talk about misinformed.
Your party used to be staunchly anti-communist and pro-military. JFK even cut taxes for crying out loud.

Now, you want d1cks in women’s locker rooms, math and being on time is racist and you despise the country so much we can’t have statues of Abraham Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson. And oh, yeah - police are ACAB.

Nope…it’s not us ripping the country apart. If Trump wins you people are going to riot from coast to coast and none of you on this board are going to denounce it.

Talk about misinformed.
Your party used to be staunchly anti-communist and pro-military. JFK even cut taxes for crying out loud.

Yes, let’s talk about the misinformed.

I’m assuming you get your news from Fox. You know, the station that voluntarily paid over three-quarters of a billion dollars to settle a lawsuit for lying. Enough said.

So which party’s policy is to fund Ukraine in its fight against communist Russia? And which party thinks communist Russia’s leader is “brilliant” and “savvy” for invading Ukraine. And which party is telling communist Russia to “do whatever the hell they want” to spread communism across Europe.

And one party showed respect and dignity during a gathering to honor our fallen soldiers while the other party characterizes our soldiers as “suckers”, “losers” and “fools.”

JFK cut taxes, sure. So did Clinton, but at least he created a budget surplus. Republican tax cuts, primarily for billionaires, only add trillions to our deficit.

Now, you want d1cks in women’s locker rooms, math and being on time is racist and you despise the country so much we can’t have statues of Abraham Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson. And oh, yeah - police are ACAB.

I consider myself to be politically active, but I’m not sure where this obscure list came from. Perhaps your beloved Fox. I seem to recall one school district in CA was ting to remove Lincoln’s name from the school, but it was never enacted after an uproar from parents. Like I said, pretty obscure stuff and certainly nothing to do with national politics.

But let’s stick with political policies.

Let’s talk about the Republican Party policies, the party that dresses up like their dear leader in order to worship and kneel before the almighty individual they put before the Constitution.

They enact laws to prevent women from getting the healthcare they want and ban abortions even in the case of rape and child incest. They endanger women’s lives in order to force women to obey their personal religious beliefs.

They think illegal immigrants are taking away jobs from blacks. And, when they tried to block counting votes in 2020, every district they sued was a majority black district. I know, just a coincidence. And now the SCOTUS has given permission to states to gerrymander black voters to restrict their voting impact. The court told them to say it was based on politics, not race. Wink, wink.

They use political power to attack corporations for internal policies they disagree with, for banning books, and imposing false historical teaching in our schools (slavery was good for blacks).

Their leader literally quotes Adolf Hitler and he claims he never read books by him. I kind of believe that because he never reads. Which means that Trump thinks like Hitler.

They think that supporting an adjudicated rapist is ok, as well as a 34-count rapist. They think stealing from a charity is ok.

They think illegal immigrants collect Social Security. They don’t. However, they do pay into Social Security. But separating babies from their mothers is a good thing.

Just a short list. There's much more.

Sure, this country is being ripped apart. Check your hands for the blood.

So it was the Southern white supremacists under the "Democrat" title that seceded in 1860, and now it's the southern white supremacists under the "Republican" label who are ripping the country apart again in the 21st century. Same folks, same racism, different name.

And Dope probably denies the Southern Strategy explanation of the change in the parties where the Southern White Supremacists migrated to the Republican party over 20-30 years.

Yes, let’s talk about the misinformed.

This should be good.

So which party’s policy is to fund Ukraine in its fight against communist Russia?

Trump sent Javelins and other weapons to the Ukraine waaaaaaay before Biden ever did. Republicans are against depleting our own stocks and giving one of the most corrupt countries on the planet a blank check.

Right off the bat, you're losing. This is your problem: you're so far up the liberal bubble, you can't think about anything other than what's parked in liberalism's descending colon. If you take my meaning about "bubble".

And one party showed respect and dignity during a gathering to honor our fallen soldiers while the other party characterizes our soldiers as “suckers”, “losers” and “fools.”

And you get your news from the hive mind. What does Snopes say?
https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/06/28/trump-soldi...
In sum, the claim stemmed from a story by The Atlantic, which relied on anonymous, second-hand reports of Trump's alleged words; there was no independent footage or documented proof to substantiate the in-question comments; and Trump vehemently denies that he once called service members "losers" and "suckers." While it was certainly possible that he said those things, Snopes was unable to independently verify the claim.

Bzzzt. Zero for 2! Tell me about "Very fine people" while you're at it.

JFK cut taxes, sure. Just save some space and type "You are correct, Dope." Everyone knows it anyway.

So did Clinton, but at least he created a budget surplus. Zero for 3. Clinton wanted to spend the "peace dividend", Newt Gingrich forced a balanced budget on him.

Next!

I consider myself to be politically active, but I’m not sure where this obscure list came from.

And here we get to the typical PA liberal method of debating: deny that liberalism does (insert list of odious things) by pretending you've never seen any of it. In other words, lie your rear end off. Lia Thomas says hello. So do all the spate of males winning female athletic competitions and beauty pageants nationwide.

Like I said, pretty obscure stuff and certainly nothing to do with national politics.

A lie. Here, let's let Bill Maher sum it up: https://redstate.com/videos/2024/06/27/bill-maher-...

Don't watch the clip.

Sure, this country is being ripped apart. Check your hands for the blood.

Says the guy who will be out in the streets rioting if he loses in the fall with his buddies.

Nice try. You people always resort to violence when you don't get your way and if Trump wins in November, you'll do it again.

A very succinct summary.

Basically, the Democrats before 1964 were different than the Democrats of today. The passing of the CRA in 1964 changed that landscape, as Johnson knew it would.

Yes, it is the hyper-conservative, generally religious, white supremacists that are tearing this country apart. Again.

Yes, it is the hyper-conservative, generally religious, white supremacists that are tearing this country apart. Again.

You've fallen into the trap of "disagree with me and you're tearing the country apart".
The fact is that your party fell off the leftist cliff and hasn't hit bottom yet. Bill Maher is trying to warn you, but you're not listening.

Maybe you'll listen to other democrats?

Marie Gluesenkamp-Perez: democrat from WA state

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jr6Izke8DA&ab_cha...

Jon Tester: democrat from Montana
https://www.yahoo.com/news/democratic-sen-jon-test...

Or maybe not. Either way, it's not my problem.

Depends on the disagreement. To take this to the absurd, if I favor freedom for all and you favor slavery for some, and your side is gaining ground, that is tearing the country apart. That could lead to civil war (as it once did).

For more mundane things, we can just disagree without it tearing anything apart. For example, tariffs. Tax cuts (or increases). Funding for border patrol.

But there are some things that are existential, and conflict of those -pretty much by definition- is "tearing the country apart".

I stopped watching Maher a few years ago. Mostly because I think he is getting "full of himself" (as I heard it put recently). Plus, I already know his stances on most things (and generally agree, though not always).

As far as "my party" falling off the "leftist cliff", we aren't even close to the edge. The progressive wing may be, but they are not the entire party (nor even a majority of the party). By global standards, the Democratic Party is centrist. It is the Republicans who are falling off the right cliff-edge, straight into autocracy.

As far as "my party" falling off the "leftist cliff", we aren't even close to the edge.

Precisely; it's several feet above you and accelerating away.

By global standards, the Democratic Party is centrist.

LOL. No it isn't. And since when are "global standards" indicative of anything? The notion of open borders and no law enforcement are being roundly rejected in Europe as we speak.

As to the "autocracy" charge, that's completely made up. It lies right next to the Seal Team 6 nonsense your teammates are hyperventilating about on the board. Ask yourself this:

Why didn't Trump declare martial law during COVID?

Trump sent Javelins and other weapons to the Ukraine waaaaaaay before Biden ever did. Republicans are against depleting our own stocks and giving one of the most corrupt countries on the planet a blank check.

You need to improve your reading comprehension skills and/or stop moving the goalposts. Try to keep up. I was referring to the communist Russia invasion of Ukraine. One party is trying to stop the spread of communism and one party is giving permission to communist Russia to “do what ever the hell they want” (that’s your guy).

And you get your news from the hive mind.

The article you linked to also included this quote from General Kelly in an interview with CNN:

”What can I add that has not already been said? A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform, or are shot down or seriously wounded in combat, or spend years being tortured as POWs are all 'suckers' because 'there is nothing in it for them.' A person that did not want to be seen in the presence of military amputees because 'it doesn't look good for me.' A person who demonstrated open contempt for a Gold Star family – for all Gold Star families – on TV during the 2016 campaign, and rants that our most precious heroes who gave their lives in America's defense are 'losers' and wouldn't visit their graves in France.”

Plus we have videos of Trump calling McCain a loser.

Clinton wanted to spend the "peace dividend", Newt Gingrich forced a balanced budget on him.

Next!

Next is the truth:

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/idea-of-t...

You people always resort to violence when you don't get your way and if Trump wins in November, you'll do it again.

As always, a Republican accusation is nothing more than a confession.

We have videos of January 6th.

Well, RL calls.

Happy 4th all!

Yes, it is the hyper-conservative, generally religious, white supremacists that are tearing this country apart. Again.

That's just a statement of fact Dope.

AlphaWolf did me a great favor and took care of most of your silly arguments. I just want to flesh out one more than he kind of glossed over.

you want d1cks in women’s locker rooms

This fear of transgendered folks stems from sexism and misogyny and rigid gender stereotypes. But that's not me. I got that thought from this article, which I found while researching gender specific restrooms around the world. I think the article sums things up pretty well.

https://equityindicators.org/blog/2016/05/17/europ...

A couple more quotes:

In Europe, they understand that there are good reasons why a transgender woman would prefer to use the ladies room. Foremost among them would be her desire to be safe.

In the U.S. nearly 80% of all transgender people say they experienced harassment at school growing up.


--Peter

Try to keep up.

You're the one who thinks the regional history started with the first troops dropping into the Ukraine. It goes back before that.

Take the L. There are many more coming.

The article you linked to also included this quote from General Kelly in an interview with CNN:

That's nice. It's him reacting to it, not corroborating it. Learn to think and digest information as you're...not really good at it. Take another L.

Plus we have videos of Trump calling McCain a loser.

Context fail. That doesn't back up your assertion. Ready to admit you're wrong, or do you just want to keep going?

Gingrich’s Republican Congress Not Responsible for 1998 Budget Surplus
Gingrich and his Republican Congress had nothing at all to do with balancing the budget in 1998. In fact, the net effect of their efforts was to make the fiscal situation slightly worse.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! Weren't you just whining about Fox? And now you whip out this.
Yeah, good luck.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/no-bill-clinton-di...

No, Bill Clinton Didn’t Balance the Budget
OCTOBER 8, 1998 • COMMENTARY
By Stephen Moore

Let us establish one point definitively: Bill Clinton didn’t balance the budget. Yes, he was there when it happened. But the record shows that was about the extent of his contribution.

Take yet another L.

Wear these proudly. Many a good and fine liberal has had his arse kicked up between his shoulder blades by reality. You won't be the last.

As always, a Republican accusation is nothing more than a confession.

We have videos of January 6th.

We have videos of January 20th. And many more besides that. The left will riot if Trump wins.

And people like you? You'll cheer it on.

Toodles!

you want d1cks in women’s locker rooms

This fear of transgendered folks stems from sexism and misogyny and rigid gender stereotypes. But that's not me. I got that thought from this article, which I found while researching gender specific restrooms around the world. I think the article sums things up pretty well.

There is little problem in the Philippines. There was one complaint, and a complaint is so unusual that it went viral, with most people siding against the complainer, about a TG to man being in the women's bathroom. They call 'em Tomboys and they have a studied look that resembles a fat Huck Finn with better shoes attire, but still a folksy look. They have a TV show that’s a little cheesy with women voting for who they like best. I’ve met a few of them. They’re nice people and they have absolute babes hanging over them. It’s funny.

I’ve seen that same look in the US at pool tables in gay haunts, but not as pronounced.

LOL. No it isn't.

Yes. It is. Very centrist. Put the Dems in any other 1st-world country, and they'd be centrist. The leftists are very far left (free healthcare, shorter work weeks, expanded welfare and food assistance, environmental protections...the list goes on). Europeans are baffled how we can allow people to go broke paying for medical care. It's indicative of the extent of the scale. If you're raised in an all-white town where the one church is evangelical xian, you're in for a shock when you go to a big city where there are all sorts of people, and all sorts of religions (or lack thereof). The Dems are left of the Reps, sure. But in the grand scheme, most of them are nowhere near the left edge of the spectrum.

The SEAL team question was a valid question. It has been answered in the negative. Move on.**

And, no, the autocracy charge isn't "made up". It's where Trump actually implied he wanted to go (when he wished he could act like Xi without the encumberence of a Congress). And it is where Project 2025 would take us, if implemented. Even if unintentionally.

I can only speculate why Trump did (or didn't do) what he did, but a quick check shows that under current law the POTUS has very limited abilities to declare martial law (basically, all the wrangling over the past 100 years resulted in the original Insurrection Act of 1807 being restored after several attempts to expand those powers). So he likely couldn't have, legally. Not without a lot of scheming to circumvent.






**Though the question is still open as to how much the POTUS can get away with under "immunity".

Put the Dems in any other 1st-world country, and they'd be centrist.

So? That's not relevant to US elections since the US is the US.

The leftists are very far left (free healthcare, shorter work weeks, expanded welfare and food assistance, environmental protections...the list goes on).

Erm, universal basic income? Free healthcare? Bernie's 32 hour work week? Do you not know your own party's positions on this stuff?

The SEAL team question was a valid question. It has been answered in the negative. Move on.**

LOL. There are loads of other threads where Shrewd Team lib is clinging to the fantasy. You should be telling them to move on.

And, no, the autocracy charge isn't "made up". It's where Trump actually implied he wanted to go (when he wished he could act like Xi without the encumberence of a Congress). And it is where Project 2025 would take us, if implemented. Even if unintentionally.

You guys keep brining up Project 2025 but have yet to uncover the Double Secret Part of The Plan that outlines where the government is taken over. Maybe you know what page that's on, because no one else seems to be able to find it.

I can only speculate why Trump did (or didn't do) what he did,

I'll take this as an admission that Trump didn't declare Martial Law during COVID and didn't act as a dictator.

So? That's not relevant to US elections since the US is the US.

You missed the point.

Do you not know your own party's positions on this stuff?

Bernie didn't win. His policies are not the policies of the Dem Party.

You guys keep brining up Project 2025 but have yet to uncover the Double Secret Part of The Plan that outlines where the government is taken over.

Actually, it has been explained to you several times. You're either not reading the replies, and just dismissing them.

I'll take this as an admission that Trump didn't declare Martial Law during COVID and didn't act as a dictator.

Yes on the first, no on the second. It's a matter of fact that he didn't declare martial law. It's also a matter of fact they he tried to govern by decree, as a dictator would. He was frustrated by the courts, and occasionally Congress. Which led -at least in part- to his envying Xi, and Xi's not having to deal with such democratic niceties as a Congress and a judiciary that respects the rule of law.

It goes back before that.

Yes, it does. Back to a time when a US President tried bargaining Congressionally approved funding for Ukraine in exchange for some made up dirt on a political rival.

--Peter

You missed the point.

No, I got the point, it was all about "the other cool kids do X". That's called the Bandwagon Fallacy, btw.

Bernie didn't win. His policies are not the policies of the Dem Party.

He carries a lot of weight still.

Actually, it has been explained to you several times. You're either not reading the replies, and just dismissing them.

I'm reading the replies. The replies say, "Here's the plot to take over the government and fire everyone and replace them with Trumpie loyalists". And I say, "So? You're describing how government works. Where's the secret part where democracy ends?" and I don't hear anything. Until somebody starts the next thread with the same charge.

It's also a matter of fact they he tried to govern by decree, as a dictator would.

How, exactly? Be specific. And know in advance that I'm going to throw this quote at you:

I've got a pen and a phone, and if Congress won't act, I will. - Barack Obama

And then I'm going to alert you to this factoid: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1125024/us-pre...
Trump's not in the top 10.

Back to a time when a US Vice President tried bargaining Congressionally approved funding for Ukraine in exchange to stopping an investigation in to his son.

Fixed that for you. And thanks for playing.

Bernie didn't win. His policies are not the policies of the Dem Party.

Bernie isn't even a democrat. He's an independent.

--Peter

His policies are not the policies of the Dem Party.

Let's expand on this one. It's a tried and true thing for the left in debates to run away from what and who the democrats are. I'll let Andy McCarthy explain:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/06/why-joe-bid...

Why? (As in, Why Joe Biden?)

Because the Democratic Party is a trainwreck.

As catastrophic as Biden is in his senescence, he remains useful cover for the fact that the youth, energy, and money in the Democratic Party is woke-leftist, Islamist, counter-constitutionalist, post-American, and unelectable.

Indeed. All the Hamas supporters out there chanting 'from the river to the sea'? That's not Trump's base. It's yours.

This doesn’t mean the whole Democratic Party is that way. But it does mean that sensible Democrats have to mind their tongues and genuflect in the crazies’ direction if they want to remain viable. They may personally believe, like the majority of Americans believe, that the border needs to be secure; that we can’t allow millions of illegal aliens a year to enter the country; that we don’t want boys and men invading the formerly safe spaces of girls and women; that mere statistical racial disparities in outcomes do not establish racism; that crime — especially recidivist crime — is a serious problem; that we need to back Israel’s wars against Hamas, Hezbollah, and their Iranian patrons; that a radical “green energy” transition the country is not ready for weighs too heavily on the budgets of everyday Americans even as it drives the national economy deeper into the ditch; and that America, warts and all, is fundamentally good — rightly, the envy of the world. But woe betide the Democrat who gives voice to such commonsense views.

Democrats have thus rolled the dice with Biden, and with the nation’s security, because the alternative is dealing with that rift.

Boom. Said better than I can.
You've lost control over your party and voters like you are needed to drag it back to where you claim it is.

Albaby went over all that months ago. There's not enough time to rev-up a campaign and be effective. There's a reason why (in this country) candidates declare at least a year ahead. They have to put together a campaign, and donors. Not an easy process, evidently.

Fixed that for you.

And yet you have no evidence of that, while I have enough evidence behind my statement to support the impeachment of a sitting president.

Interesting things, these facts. They get in the way of fantastical fairy tales.

--Peter

And yet you have no evidence of that, while I have enough evidence behind my statement to support the impeachment of a sitting president.

You mean other than Biden bragging about doing it on video?
All you had in the sham impeachment was the phone call and Alexander Vindman, not exactly credible.

Interesting things, these facts.

You should cite some once in a while. You might find it jarring, though.

Same folks, same racism, different name.

Dope knows this too. His schtick is simply to 'flood the zone with shit,' as popularized by right wing media.

the phone call

Yes. The written transcript of the actual crime.

But that’s not credible?

Talk about your alternate reality.

—Peter

But that’s not credible?

Not particularly, especially when no "crime" took place.
Try again.

free healthcare, shorter work weeks, expanded welfare and food assistance, environmental protections...the list goes on).
Ber
No, you don't get to narrow down left to only the USA. The Nordic countries have high taxes, but you get a lot. These are Viking, remember? Berzerkers. :)

None of your list is out of the realm of possibility. I think we can do better on healthcare. Environmental protections need to be pruned back every now and then to make room for new growth. :) Food assistance is necessary because capitalism doesn't pay so good. We can't all be plumbers,

It was a welcome breath of fresh air to see some Social Democrats in Congress. But make no mistake, in spite of your denials, the right had gone f5 times as far to the right as the left has move left.

Interesting things, these facts. They get in the way of fantastical fairy tales.

Not if you are in the Trump cult.

"So? You're describing how government works. Where's the secret part where democracy ends?" and I don't hear anything.

But that isn't how government works. Why don't you go research where that happens and quantify how large it is for us. How many people lose their jobs under a new admin and how many are unaffected.

Try again.

OK. I'll make it simpler if I can.

Things have to be done in the right order. You suspect a crime, you gather evidence, then you decide if the evidence proves the crime happened. This is the order. That's what courts do every day. So let's look.

Not particularly, especially when no "crime" took place.

What you are doing here is turning things around. You say there is no "crime" so any evidence isn't credible. That's illogical.

Let's start with looking at the evidence. Is this transcript substantially accurate? If not, why do you think it's inaccurate?

--Peter

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