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From Dershowitz:

https://dersh.substack.com/p/biden-has-a-very-fine...

This week Mr. Biden had his own moment of unclarity. Asked on Monday about current events on campus across the country, he said: “I condemn the antisemitic protests. That’s why I’ve set up a program to deal with that. I also condemn those who don’t understand what’s going on with the Palestinians.” He then mumbled a few unintelligible words.

Mr. Biden seemed to be saying that pro-Hamas demonstrators are no worse than pro-Israel demonstrators who believe that “what’s going on with Palestinians” is ultimately Hamas’s fault for invading Israel, barbarically attacking its people, and using Palestinian civilians as human shields.


Some lib is going to claim that the protests going on at Columbia and other whacko institutions of allegedly higher learning are “anti war” and not-the pro-Hamas tent parties they actually are.

Biden’s comments are a bad attempt at having cake and eating it too.

Mr. Biden should unqualifiedly condemn antisemitism and harassment and violence against Jews. Trying to balance that justified condemnation by suggesting a false moral equivalence is wrong and will hurt him politically. Most Americans understand the difference between the murderers and rapists of Hamas and the defenders of Israel, even if they sometimes fault Israeli actions. If Mr. Biden fails to understand that difference—or, worse, understands but deliberately blurs it—voters will see through his politicization of a clear moral issue.

Dope1: Some lib is going to claim that the protests going on at Columbia and other whacko institutions of allegedly higher learning are “anti war” and not-the pro-Hamas tent parties they actually are.

Well, there are several protests occurring on campuses, listed in no particular order: 1.) Anti-war; 2.) Pro-Palestinian (not pro-Hamas); and 3.) anti-censorship (or anti-arrest or however you'd describe protests of the arrest or expulsion of the original protesters). And yes, I imagine there are a small faction of protesters who are pro-Hamas or anti-Semitic.

But Biden is right: there are a lot of dead and starving Palestinians in Gaza, and a significant number of them are babies and children who have no understanding of being used as human shields. And despite being used as human shields that doesn't make them any less hungry or any less dead.

Perhaps you or Captain Underpants can tell us how many starving and dead Palestinian children are too many and at what point that becomes a "clear moral issue".

There's a lot going on in Gaza and other than Hamas being responsible for the original act of terrorism that started this crisis/war -- and never having any interest but to fan the flames of unrest in the Middle East -- not a lot of it is clear.

I figured someone would reply, so I resisted the urge to reply until I read further.

Yes, I'm sure some of them are pro-Hamas and/or anti-Semitic. But the majority probably feel as I do that -as usual- it's the ordinary civilians trying to go about their lives that are getting the brunt of this war/conflict.

On the other hand, when the enemy is hiding among the civilians (a war crime, but Hamas doesn't care), collateral damage is certain to increase. And we can't expect Israel to "just take it". We certainly didn't after 9/11. I think Israel is being somewhat careless in their targeting (e.g. when most of the dead from an attack are children, you probably didn't target properly...which just happened a week or so ago).

IMO, it's really a no-win situation. If Israel continues to prosecute the conflict, more civilians will die. If they stop, Hamas will just regroup. They won't destroy Hamas. Just as we didn't destroy the Taliban, or ISIS, or the VC. Heck, 80 years after defeating Nazis there are still Nazis (and in some places they seem to be resurging, even if they don't apply the label "Nazi" to themselves). Pretty hard to kill an idea. At some point, Israel will have to stop, and they will not have achieved their goal of eliminating Hamas.

I have sympathy for the civilians who wanted no part of this. I also know that the majority of Palestinians weren't even born when Hamas was elected to power, and there haven't been any elections since. It's a crap situation all around.

Well, there are several protests occurring on campuses, listed in no particular order: 1.) Anti-war;

Figures. They’re supporting Hamas; that’s why they chant ‘from the river to the sea…’. If you agree with them then perhaps you do as well.

But Biden is right: there are a lot of dead and starving Palestinians in Gaza, and a significant number of them are babies and children who have no understanding of being used as human shields.

Is this an attempt at creating an argument? Who do you think made them human shields in the first place?

The blame starts and ends with Hamas. Period, full stop.

Dope1: Figures. They’re supporting Hamas; that’s why they chant ‘from the river to the sea…’. If you agree with them then perhaps you do as well.

Unlike all of the very fine marchers in Charlottesville chanting "Jews will not replace us," not all of the protesters are chanting for the death of Israel.

Dope1: Is this an attempt at creating an argument?

Hey, you brought this here so you and Captain Underpants could do some Biden bashing. You don't get to ignore an obvious fact: Biden has a point, Palestinian women and children are starving and dying and some people don't want to acknowledge their suffering.

Dope1: Who do you think made them human shields in the first place?

Hamas. And again, even if you believe that somehow all of the women are complicit, most of the children are innocent. They have nothing to do with Hamas, are not old enough to understand their situation or make rational decisions, and no ability to take any action to change their circumstances.

Again, how many dead children are too many? Just give me a number as a guide.

not all of the protesters are chanting for the death of Israel.

Right. They’re wearing keffiyehs and assaulting Jews because it’s cold outside.

You don't get to ignore an obvious fact: Biden has a point, Palestinian women and children are starving and dying and some people don't want to acknowledge their suffering.

Tell me you don’t know what’s going on in Gaza without telling me you don’t don’t know what’s going on in Gaza.

Hamas owns this. They started it, they’re using hospitals to launch attacks and store weapons in, and as far as food goes:

https://www.jns.org/hamas-steals-food-from-its-cit....

Hamas deliberately prevents needy Gazans from accessing humanitarian aid. They distribute to themselves, then sell the rest on the black market. One Gaza resident told The Media Line, “[The aid] goes to the gangs. Hamas controls 70% of it, and the rest goes to merchants who sell it in the market. We do not receive aid except for a few things on rare occasions. The rest is for Hamas, and the merchants belong to Hamas. The prices are very high, and we cannot buy it.”

Anyone who styles himself a sophisticate on these matters ought to be aware enough that Hamas IS PERFECTLY HAPPY to starve Gazans because they know that…the uninformed…will run to the nearest keyboard and proclaim How Awful Things Are.

Hamas

Good. Maybe you are in fact paying a little bit of attention.

I’ll leave you with this.

https://twitter.com/AbeGreenwald/status/1782828591...

Why aren’t the “protestors” demanding that the terrorist group Hamas release hostages and surrender? Literally none of them are calling for that. All the fury is aimed at Israel, none at the party that started the war with an act of mass slaughter and rape and that keeps it going with hostage-taking and human-shielding. Hamas has turned down every “ceasefire” offer. Why would pro-ceasefire activists support the side that refuses a ceasefire?

Why would a supposedly anti-war movement overtly support the side of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis, Islamic Jihad, and Hamas, all of whom exist only to wage war?

Why haven’t these wonderful humanitarians mounted similar campaigns in response to actual genocides, such as those carried out against Muslims in China, Syria, Sudan, and Myanmar? Slaughters that have claimed many more innocent lives than the war in Gaza? I’ve screamed and written about these atrocities for years. Where were they?

Why do protesters cite Hamas statistics as gospel?

Why do they ignore the fact that most wars—especially those wars that have been overwhelmingly celebrated as righteous—have far worse civilian to combatant ratios than does the current war in Gaza? World War II comes to mind.

Why did they start protesting Israel immediately after October 7, before Israel even launched its ground invasion in Gaza?

Why do people who would be apoplectic over the most microscopic indication of anti-black racism or Islamophobia downplay the flagrant and widespread violent anti-Semitism of these rallies as the unrepresentative behavior of “just a few jerks”? Have they not seen the total saturation of Hamas slogans at these events?

Again, how many dead children are too many? Just give me a number as a guide. - CO

-------------------

The only rational answer is as few as possible from here on out.

What produces more deaths, a massive attack wiping out Hamas for once and for all vs the status quo prior to 10/7. For decades, Hamas has been lobbing missiles into Israel and occasionally getting whacked for it. So what is worse, a one-time massive attack with all the carnage that goes with it vs five or ten at a time, on a daily treadmill of death for another fifty years?

Something had to change, and the change Israel has embarked on is ugly no doubt, but ugliness does not reduce the necessity of altering the status quo.

I wish that Israel just went into Rafah as soon as they had the assets in place. If they did, the overall conflict would be mostly over by now and the entire world could be helping with humanitarian aid and reconstruction. Meanwhile, the Abraham Accords could have been resumed moving the Middle East to a more sane relationship among each other and with Israel. The elimination of Hamas is best for all parties including the Gazans. When? NOW!

The elimination of Hamas is best for all parties including the Gazans. When? NOW!</iL

Notice how none of those backing the protests are mentioning the hostages? Or how about the administration demanding their release?

Hamas is doing all of this, and bears all the blame. Hamas forced an American - who lost his arm to a Hamas grenade at the music festival - to do a hostage video today. They’re a scourge.

SNIP In the video, reportedly filmed near a hospital in the city of Deir al-Balah, in central Gaza, men, women, and children are chanting and carrying signs demanding the release of Israeli hostages. Around 130 Israelis remain captive after a weeklong cease-fire deal in November freed 100 others in exchange for the release of Palestinians imprisoned by Israel.
Fury in Gaza is mounting against Hamas’s leader, Yehya Sinwar, who has rejected Israel’s proposal for a two-month ceasefire that would lead to the release of more Israeli captives and Palestinians. SNIP


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