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Author: hedgehog444   😊 😞
Number: of 48466 
Subject: Saints
Date: 05/22/2023 12:35 AM
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No. of Recommendations: 7
At the risk of an on-topic post, I wanted to write about a very minor section of "Sapiens", by Harari. A truly sprawling book that I won't try to describe, at one point he talks about saints. Prior to Christianity the Romans had done a really good job of including the religions of the people they conquered into their existing pantheon of gods. So there are temples to Mithras and Isis and lots of others along with standard Jupiter, Mars, Juno, Venus. The chief gods (e.g. Jupiter) weren't really designed for interceding, so it was the ancillary gods that you would ask for daily help. For instance Vesta was the goddess of home, hearth, family and bakers, so if your dough wasn't rising or the oven wasn't baking properly, an offering to Vesta might(?) fix the problem. After Christianity came along with its insistance on a single god, a clear need rose for those same intercessionary figures that were the minor gods and goddesses of yore. Enter the saints. These were/are the people you turn to for daily help. My mother was sure that St. Anthony was going to help her find her car keys, purse, other sock, etc. Many of my young fellow Catholics wore St. Christopher medals. Of course Christianity has spent considerable effort in encorporating pagan rituals into its liturgy (Walpurgis Night anyone?) but I hadn't fully appreciated the role of saints until Harari's work. I recommend the book highly.

Rgds,
HH/Sean




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Author: sano 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48466 
Subject: Re: Saints
Date: 05/22/2023 2:26 AM
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Prior to moving back up to San Luis Obispo, we lived just west of San Juan Capistrano in view of St. Edwards the Confessor's spire. St. Edwards had a high number of pedophile priests, 2nd only to a parish in -where else - Florida!


So, 2 priests were sitting side by side in a pew pondering the coming Sunday mass when a 13 yr old altar boy crossed the .......... nah, everybody already heard this one....

ttps://mersonlaw.com/california-catholic-diocese-priest-sex-abuse-list/
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Author: sheila727   😊 😞
Number: of 48466 
Subject: Re: Saints
Date: 05/22/2023 12:45 PM
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After Christianity came along with its insistance on a single god, a clear need rose for those same intercessionary figures that were the minor gods and goddesses of yore. Enter the saints.


How fascinating and sense-making. Bless you for posting this! ;-)
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Author: Neuromancer   😊 😞
Number: of 48466 
Subject: Re: Saints
Date: 05/22/2023 2:30 PM
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"After Christianity came along with its insistance on a single god,"

Pretty sure monotheism preceded Christianity by quite a bit.
Christianity was essentially a breakaway sect of Judaism which already insisted on a single god.
Christianity actually invented 3 gods as part of this.
Islam also evolved from Judaism but came after Christianity.
Similar/same texts were sources for all 3.
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Author: onepoorguy 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 1024 
Subject: Re: Saints
Date: 05/22/2023 3:37 PM
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Quibble: the OT (which is Judaism) says "thou shalt have no gods <plural> before me". Which means the Hebrews acknowledged other gods, but theirs (Yahweh/Jehovah) was the head honcho. He also is the only one that is talked about, as far as I can recall. I think Xianity was the first to assert ONLY one god, even though their OT clearly states there were multiple gods. And then the Catholics made their trinity, which is sort of three gods.

It's a mess.
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Author: hedgehog444   😊 😞
Number: of 1024 
Subject: Re: Saints
Date: 05/22/2023 4:53 PM
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Pretty sure monotheism preceded Christianity by quite a bit.
I apologize for that implication, it certainly wasn't my intent to suggest that christians were first. Judaism clearly preceded christianity, which brings up a related point. I'm unaware (through ignorance) of a similar menagerie of helper beings in judaism. The sacred texts I'm familiar with (e.g. "Fiddler on the Roof") seem to present a much more directly transactional relationship between god and man. "I won't eat pork, you keep the Czar far from us". Certainly christians are counting on god for the big things like salvation, but asking the christian god to help find car keys doesn't feel familiar to my experience. But maybe someone more knowledgeable about judaism can chip in?
Rgds,
HH/Sean


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