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Author: albaby1 🐝 HONORARY
SHREWD
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Number: of 48489 
Subject: IVF as a Wedge Issue
Date: 02/23/2024 3:00 PM
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After the Alabama case, the National Republican Senatorial Committee (NRSC) has apparently advised its candidates to make sure that their positions on the matter "align with" the public's overwhelming support for IVF treatments being available. More broadly, the NRSC wants their folks to make it clear that Republicans don't want to get in the way of people's access to IVF services:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/23...

Which certainly seems like good politics. IVF is popular, a lot of people don't view it as having the same moral dimensions as abortion (though more below), and at first blush it seems like this is a way to try to stem the bleeding without paying a big political cost.

There is a problem with that, though. The thing about Dobbs, and the abortion restrictions passed after it, is that they didn't reduce the number of abortions in the U.S. Even though 14 states banned them outright, and seven adopted tighter restrictions, the number of abortions in the U.S. went up. Because abortion is widely available in most blue states, and people can (and will) travel out of state.

This is a problem for the serious pro-life faction. They wanted abortion to go down. They expected that overturning Roe would move things in that direction. But it didn't. They've more or less done all that they can do at the state level. They can't materially reduce abortion without stopping them in blue states. And they have to be pessimistic about a national abortion ban getting through Congress ever.

That leaves the fetal personhood effort - trying to get the SCOTUS to rule that a fetus is a "person" within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. And the legal strategy for doing that has a proven record, drawn from the incredibly successful effort to get SCOTUS to recognize a right to gay marriage. With the fetal personhood effort, you try to get enough states to treat fetuses exactly the same way as human babies (just as states started treating gay civil unions identically to straight marriages), and build up a factual record for why the term "person" should include both fetuses and babies.

So that's the problem with being pro-IVF, or supporting things like a recently-filed Alabama bill that would exempt frozen embryos from being considered unborn children. It undermines the most plausible avenue for stopping abortions in blue states.

Albaby

P.S. Turning back to that moral dimension...while it's possible to make some arguments allowing for some abortion exceptions in the incredibly painful situations of raped minor children or fetuses that will die in pain immediately after birth, none of those countervailing moral dimensions are really present when you're talking about healthy frozen embryos. It's hard to be okay with destroying a perfectly healthy embryo after conception simply because it's no longer wanted or needed in situations where there wasn't sex involved or any perceived lack of responsibility, and not when those factors are present, and still argue that it's all about human life and not because you are looking at the moral rectitude of the woman involved. Most people won't really look at it that way, but for those who really live and breath fights over abortion (on both sides of the issue), that type of distinction is going to make it harder for the pro-life folks to make their moral arguments, if they sign on to it.
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Author: weatherman   😊 😞
Number: of 48489 
Subject: Re: IVF as a Wedge Issue
Date: 02/23/2024 8:36 PM
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that deafening silence is all the Fundamentalists abandoning trump because of his moderate views on reproductive rights.
even they are not dumb enough to believe his pre-election lies on an issue that will absolutely crush the real trump.

(far ahead of getting crushed by Swifties or a debate with Chris Christie)

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Author: onepoorguy 🐝  😊 😞
Number: of 48489 
Subject: Re: IVF as a Wedge Issue
Date: 02/24/2024 3:16 PM
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If they are "persons" under the 14th Amendment, then they should be "persons" under the 13th. In which case, you cannot force anyone into servitude of those persons. QED.
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