Post New

...just as described.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/06/us/politics/ukr...

U.S. and Ukrainian Officials to Meet Next Week About Path to End War
The officials plan to meet next week to discuss the first steps of an agreement, after President Trump cast doubt on U.S. support for Ukraine in recent days.

A-yup.

“Ukrainian and American teams have resumed work, and we hope that next week we will have a meaningful meeting,” Mr. Zelensky said in a statement on Thursday.
Mr. Zelensky said that Ukraine would send a delegation to meet with “military representatives of countries that are ready to make greater efforts to reliably guarantee security within the framework of ending this war.” He said the meeting was scheduled for Tuesday, but did not specify who would attend.

Also as mentioned, the Europeans are making noise about re-arming to better supply themselves and the Ukrainians with weapons.

Let's see if Trump succeeds this time after his flaming failure last time. Has Trump convinced Putin to give Ukraine all their territory back? Has he developed a plan to guarantee Ukraine security? We will see.
Alan

A-yup.

President Trump knew exactly how to deal with the ingrate who thought he could
tell Trump how the deal would go down.

Also as mentioned, the Europeans are making noise about re-arming to better supply themselves and the Ukrainians with weapons.

About time the Europeans started doing their share pitching in to help themselves and Ukraine.

Let's see if Trump succeeds this time after his flaming failure last time.

You don't lecture the President of the United States in the Oval Office. The Fail was Zelensky's.

Has Trump convinced Putin to give Ukraine all their territory back? Has he developed a plan to guarantee Ukraine security? We will see.

One more time. Zelensky lacks

*The dudes
*The guns
*The money

...to throw Putin out. Therefore, in a range of 0-100%, how much territory is Russia motivated to just hand back?

About time the Europeans started doing their share pitching in to help themselves and Ukraine.

All those speeches from the Europeans amounted to the entire continent telling the US Your terms are acceptable. Kinda hilarious, actually.

All we're asking those boneheads to do is to get back some semblance of capability, around what they had in 1990 would be good.

The left has been making many claims about Trump and Putin, completely misreading the situation, of course.

What Trump has been doing is avoiding taking shots at the man to try to get him to the bargaining table. Those were the carrots. Now the sticks are coming out:

<Based on the fact that Russia is absolutely “pounding” Ukraine on the battlefield right now, I am strongly considering large scale Banking Sanctions, Sanctions, and Tariffs on Russia until a Cease Fire and FINAL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT ON PEACE IS REACHED. To Russia and Ukraine, get to the table right now, before it is too late. Thank you!!!

Indeed. Woo them at first, then issue some threats.

And what do you know. The Russkies are thinking maybe it's time to talk:

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/putin-is-said...

Russia is willing to discuss a temporary truce in Ukraine provided there is progress toward a final peace settlement, according to people familiar with the matter in Moscow.

In the first signal of a positive response from President Vladimir Putin to US counterpart Donald Trump’s call for a ceasefire, the offer was conveyed at last month’s talks in Saudi Arabia between top Russian and American officials, the people said, asking not to be identified discussing internal policy.

In order to agree to a cessation of hostilities, there would have to be a clear understanding about the framework principles of the final peace accord, two people with knowledge of the matter said. Russia will insist in particular on establishing the parameters of an eventual peacekeeping mission, including agreement on which countries would take part, said another person familiar with the issue.

That last bit is standard diplomatic boilerplate stuff.

WHY might the Russians be suddenly interested in ramping things down? There are a few answers to that. Two of them are:
1. It's definitely not in Russia's interest for the Euros to suddenly turn their weapons factories back on
2. The US is now exporting LNG at record rates...and that means Europe doesn't need to buy the from Russkies anymore

So being more broke than they already are AND potentially staring down the barrels of more European guns is likely contributing to Putin being a little more...motivated...to come to the table.

Liberals are products of the Soviet Communist Propaganda tutorials of the 80's.

they are showing their talents now.

True Soviets agents - True believers Liberals are when it comes to Red.

WHY might the Russians be suddenly interested in ramping things down? There are a few answers to that. Two of them are:
1. It's definitely not in Russia's interest for the Euros to suddenly turn their weapons factories back on
2. The US is now exporting LNG at record rates...and that means Europe doesn't need to buy the from Russkies anymore

SNIP Russia will likely face a number of material, manpower, and economic issues in 12 to 18 months if Ukrainian forces continue to inflict damage on Russian forces on the battlefield at the current rate. Russia's defense industrial base (DIB) cannot sustain Russia's current armored vehicle, artillery system, and ammunition burn rates in the medium-term. Russia's recruitment efforts appear to be slowing such that they cannot indefinitely replace Russia's current casualty rates without an involuntary reserve mobilization, which Russian President Vladimir Putin has shown great reluctance to order. Putin has mismanaged Russia's economy, which is suffering from increased and unsustainable war spending, growing inflation, significant labor shortages, and reductions in Russia's sovereign wealth fund. These issues will present difficult decision points to Putin in 2026 or 2027 provided current trends continue. Putin thus is likely prioritizing breaking Western and particularly US support to Ukraine in 2025 and securing his desired end state in negotiations, letting him avoid facing the nexus of difficult problems he now confronts. US military aid to Ukraine has let Ukraine drive Russia towards a critical moment when Putin will have to make hard choices. SNIP

The above are the likely reasons, Putin wants something that looks like a win for him before 2026.

The aid has been paused now. Note the reductions in Russia's sovereign wealth fund, usually not mentioned on the Shrewd.

The above are the likely reasons, Putin wants something that looks like a win for him before 2026.

Negotiations are always based on mutual interest. Stopping the fighting is in everyone's mutual interest.

I give Putin no absolution here.

I hate what he's done.

I was let down a bit, I didn't think he was capable of this.

BUT ......

IF -- even after us, the USA was "defeated" and in tatters, what if China and Russia provided security guarantees for ----Mexico? Canada? What if equipment and troops were there? Would we have taken to that happily?

What if Soviets put Missiles in Cuba - oh wait - that happened and we didn't want that.

So as the Woke War Machine and their NeoCon soulmates kept shouting "We won the Cold War" while in the next breath making NATO bigger.....what was Putin supposed to do.

So far, the Woke Left egged all this on "We hate Putin!" and Crimea and now other parts of Ukraine are suffering. In response, Club 401K says 'We Stand with Ukraine!" "We'l give you most of the weapons, we'll enjoy the profits, but we won't give you all you requested because we want a nice long, profitable war, and we are using Ukraine to wear down Putin". That's about it.

It sounds like this round is doomed for failure, as was the last one. Until Trump can negotiate something with the Russians there will be no deal.
Ukraine has made their needs very clear.
Alan

Stopping the fighting is in everyone's mutual interest.

Not if it freezes in place the armed theft of land from a severeign country

Stopping the fighting is in everyone's mutual interest.

In a broad sense, sure. Fighting is generally not a favorable situation for anyone.

However, "freezing" the current territory situation is not in Ukraine's interest. If Russia gives back all of the land, including Crimea, and Ukraine gives back Kursk...fine. Everyone pull back, stop fighting, and start rebuilding. Otherwise, it is not in Ukraine's interest to stop fighting. Though it is in Russia's, since they would have made territorial gains and been able to keep them. Which Ukraine clearly is aware of since they are continuing to fight for their land and homes.

I bet dope would understand your position if Biden were the one who was surrendering to Putin.

Not if it freezes in place the armed theft of land from a severeign country

One more time, with feeling.

Zelensky lacks
-The dudes
-The guns
-The money

...to push Putin out. Those are the facts on the ground; they're going to have to accept some kind of negotiated settlement where Putin keeps something.

Or they can keep fighting until the Ukrainians are bled white. Is that what you want?

Or you might say, "But Dope. A real President would do what Trump was talking about and crush Russia's economy once and for al1!" That one falls into the "Be careful what you wish for" category. I'll leave it as an exercise to see why.

It sounds like this round is doomed for failure,

We'll have to see.

Zelensky lacks
-The dudes
-The guns
-The money

Obviously, that’s Ukraine’s call, not yours, and not Donald Trump echoing Putin’s propaganda.

Obviously, that’s Ukraine’s call

No, that's reality.
How long did it take Putin to dig the Azov battalion out of Mariupol? You think the Ukrainians have that kind of firepower now?

The money
The next real move is the EU taking the $200B of frozen Russian assets and giving them to Ukraine. That will go a long way toward solving all of these problems.

Trump is mostly playing on the sidelines now. We will have to see if he does anything constructive this time, rather than the destructive mess he made last time.
Alan

The next real move is the EU taking the $200B of frozen Russian assets and giving them to Ukraine.

Short term fix at best. Doesn’t solve The Dudes Problem and doesn’t incentivize Putin to come to the table.


Trump is mostly playing on the sidelines now. ~/i>

Er, no. Trump is the one calling the shots. There was no mention of peace talks until now.

So…exactly the opposite.

Er, no. Trump is the one calling the shots. There was no mention of peace talks until now.

They’re not peace talks, they’re unconditional surrender talks because the dictator-want-to-be coward Trump connects with the poor misunderstood Putin rather than the Ukrainians who illegally invaded Russia.

Everything Trump touches dies.

They’re not peace talks, they’re unconditional surrender talks

Erm, okay. I suppose we’re going to have Putin stage a parade in Kyiv next month.

As long as Ukraine is supplied, they will be able to stop Putin. They've proven that over the past 3 years. They are not ready to give up, and that is their call.

You can't think of this as a conventional war with big tank battles and dogfights. Ukraine has no navy, but has managed to cripple (and neutralize) the Black Sea fleet. They are outnumbered in armor and artillery, and yet are inflicting more casualties and equipment losses than their Russian opponents. The Russian air force has to stand-off at great distances, or be shot down. Which limits the ordinance they can use. Their helicopters don't have that range, and if they get close enough to be useful, they are destroyed. So they have mostly been neutralized.

What should have taken a week by conventional thinking has dragged into three years, and the Russians still have not achieved their objective.

If Russia had deep assets (personnel and materiel), Ukraine would be doomed. As it is, they are going to be out of armor within about 12 months, and artillery within about 18 months (or maybe it is reversed...I forget, and am too lazy to pull the charts up again). If they are supplied, Ukraine can easily hold out that long. If they want to. Which, evidently, they do.

Anyone who says otherwise is not really well-informed, and is thinking big battles with lots of drives and breakouts. That's not this war. Not even close, really.

Erm, okay. I suppose we’re going to have Putin stage a parade in Kyiv next month.

Hope you don’t mind if I save a link to this post.

It could be the first time I recall you being right about something.

One more time, with feeling.

Zelensky lacks
-The dudes
-The guns
-The money

...to push Putin out<?i>

One more time - Russia obviously didn't have the dudes, the guns, the money to take Kyiv like Putin wanted. He's draining the sovereign wealth fund and by the end of 2025 things will start looking bleak for him, so he wants to make a settlement, but he needs to have a semblance of a win for back home. If we continue to fund Ukraine, Putin's machine gets weaker and weaker and his position back home gets worse and worse. But fortunately he has Trump and Dope in his pocket to make his case for settlement now, because he needs a settlement that he can tout as a win back home. It's in the West's best interest to fund this for another year and squeeze Putin, and don't let him have that win. But we have Trump, and Dope.

we continue to fund Ukrain

So we have a stalemate. But since you hate Trump, you won’t accept the obvious.

Please keep making things about other posters. That boosts your arguments waaaaaay up.

So we have a stalemate. But since you hate Trump, you won’t accept the obvious.

The obvious has been stated many times, which you choose to ignore. Over and over again.

If you don’t learn from history, you risk making the same mistakes made before. Over and over again.

So let me try once again to explain.

We do NOT fund Ukraine because we’re nice guys.

We fund Ukraine BECAUSE IT IS IN OUR BEST INTERESTS TO DO SO.

Dictators do not take one country. The take one country at a time.

It is much better to fund someone who is willing to fight an illegal invasion than to wait and have to fight and fund a much larger and stronger enemy in the future.

You can never appease a dictator enough.

Just ask Neville Chamberlain.

Why do you think Trump surrounds himself with yes men? As the great general (and imperfect human being, although I’m glad he was on our side) George Patton said, "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.”

The obvious has been stated many times,

Indeed! Let’s state it again:

Zelensky lacks the dudes, the guns and the money to push out Putin.

Ergo, it’s time to talk. It’s astounding that you folks won’t even consider the damage being done to the Ukraine day in, day out.

Zelensky lacks the dudes, the guns and the money to push out Putin.

Which explains why the 2nd strongest army in the world is still stuck in a quagmire after over THREE YEARS despite help from China and North Korea’s fighting elite forces. The war was supposed to be over in 3 days, not 3 years.

Screw Russia.

Ergo, it’s time to talk. It’s astounding that you folks won’t even consider the damage being done to the Ukraine day in, day out.

Apparently the Ukrainians think their freedom is worth it and they haven’t even asked for 1 U.S. soldier to help.

And, IT’S IN OUR BEST INTERESTS.

Which explains why the 2nd strongest army in the world is still stuck in a quagmire after over THREE YEARS despite help from China and North Korea’s fighting elite forces. The war was supposed to be over in 3 days, not 3 years.

Irrelevant. The front lines are at a stalemate.

You need to stop being emotional and start being rational. Of course bleeding Russia is in our best interest. But bleeding out the Ukraine FASTER than bleeding out Russia isn’t in our national interest.

Ergo.

Seek a settlement. Rebuild the Ukrainians faster than Russia can rebuild. Then see about Round 2 later.

Seek a settlement. Rebuild the Ukrainians faster than Russia can rebuild. Then see about Round 2 later.

I’m not Ukrainian although one set of my great grandparents came from Ulm, Ukraine (controlled by Russia at the time).*

If I was Ukrainian, this is what I’d settle for. Everyone goes back to the pre-war borders and Ukraine joins NATO. Fuck you, Russia.

However, Trump is just repeating the Russian demands because, well, he’s a fucking ignorant moron.

*Funny story. When I was a kid in the early 60s, we always vacationed at the St. Lawrence (dad loved fishing). My grandfather who was born in Ulm, lived with us and we always took a trip to Canada every vacation. Mind you, this was at the peak of the Cold War. As we approached the Canadian border, my father would turn to his father-in-law (my Ulm grandfather) and say firmly, “Now Willie, just say you were born in New York City.” We’d get to the border, the border patrol would ask everyone where they were born (in the U.S, of course) and then he’d ask my grandfather who would proudly (and a bit stubbornly) answer “Russia.” OK, pull over, please. My dad was furious (every year). I absolutely LOVED it (every year!).

If Trump wants to be viewed as the great negotiator that ended the war, he has to go back to Putin and negotiate a better deal for Ukraine.
By all appearances he has not done this, and will come to the table with another losing proposal.
Ukraine has been holding the line for a long time now, and can continue to do so.

The fact that Trump is actively helping Russia put more pressure on Ukraine in order to get a deal, as opposed to helping Ukraine and hurting Russia to get a better deal for Ukraine, tells me all I need to know.
Alan

If I was Ukrainian, this is what I’d settle for. Everyone goes back to the pre-war borders and Ukraine joins NATO. Fuck you, Russia.

Okay. How do you propose to throw Ivan out?

If Trump wants to be viewed as the great negotiator that ended the war, he has to go back to Putin and negotiate a better deal for Ukraine.

What deal? There is no deal at the moment.

So we have a stalemate. But since you hate Trump, you won’t accept the obvious.

No, you act and talk like a fifth columnist. It's in the USian interest to bleed Putin down further, so he doesn't get his desired win, and it takes much longer to recover. Doing this would also be a message to China. And all we have to do is spend some money - no blood.

No, you act and talk like a fifth columnist. It's in the USian interest to bleed Pu

Okay, sure.

And all we have to do is spend some money - no blood.

Wow. So you’re willing to bleed Russia all the way down to the last Ukrainian also. How very…European…of you.

No. Trump is siding with Putin because he owes him. He does not care how many Ukrainians are murdered as a result. Everyone on earth but Trump’s cult gets it.

How arrogant is it for you to make the decision for Ukraine? They are willing to fight for their freedom and you are willing to stab them in the back. How Neville Chamberlain of you.

bleeding out the Ukraine FASTER than bleeding out Russia isn’t in our national interest.

No student of history I see, or do you know what this may be called?

It's clear Russia wants a cessation, but on it's own terms so it can rebuild and come back. But it's advantageous to us to bleed him longer, make it cost him more. Settling on Putin's terms is giving away the store.

No student of history I

Currently reading The World Crisis Volume I, thank you very much.

It's clear Russia wants a cessation, but on it's own terms so it can rebuild and come back

Wow. You’ve figured this whole thing out. Parties in conflict act in their own interests. Do you have a podcast or something where you share these pieces of wisdom?

Seek a settlement. Rebuild the Ukrainians faster than Russia can rebuild. Then see about Round 2 later.

That is one of the more foolish ideas I've seen floated. You don't let them up when you have them down. You keep going until one gives up. This isn't boxing where you break up a clench. It's UFC.

Yes, it's a stalemate. That's generally a part of a war of attrition, which this has become. Continue to supply Ukraine for as long as they are willing to fight, and Russia will have to tap-out first. Meanwhile, one of the three most hostile nations on Earth is tied-down, militarily and economically, and unable to meddle much elsewhere.

It will be very difficult, politically, for Putin to give up. But if things keep going like they are, he'll have no choice. THAT'S a positive outcome from this mess. He'll even have to accept if Ukraine joins NATO if he gets desperate enough (which he will in a year or so).

Letting Putin catch is breath, so to speak, is simply stupid. (I tried not to use that word, but it was the best adjective.)

Ergo, it’s time to talk. It’s astounding that you folks won’t even consider the damage being done to the Ukraine day in, day out.

Your mistake is thinking that Putin will respect any 'peace' agreement. Only a fool, with no knowledge of recent history would make that mistake.

What is astounding is your faith in the corrupt liar in the Whitehouse and his best buddy Putin. THAT is crazy.

Zelensky lacks
-The dudes
-The guns
-The money

Obviously, that’s Ukraine’s call, not yours,- Bill

======================

The money? Just how is that Ukraine's call?

The money? Just how is that Ukraine's call?

No, it’s our call.

Do we go with the democracy that was illegally invaded and is trying to defend itself or do we go with the cold-blooded dictator who illegally invaded another country and is our mortal enemy?

Close call.

The money? Just how is that Ukraine's call?

Whether to continue to fight. That's their call.

Several times it has been mentioned that Ukraine is suffering casualties and damage to their economy, as if that is relevant to providing them aid. If Ukraine is willing to fight on, and they clearly are, then that is irrelevant. We're not forcing them to fight. They're doing it just as surely as we would do it if Mexico suddenly invaded Texas.

Do we go with the democracy that was illegally invaded and is trying to defend itself or do we go with the cold-blooded dictator who illegally invaded another country and is our mortal enemy?

Obviously we’re on Ukraine’s side.
Wouldn’t it be better to get a cease-fire to let them rebuild and rearm?

Wouldn’t it be better to get a cease-fire to let them rebuild and rearm?

Wouldn't it be better to let them decide that, instead of trying to force it on them?

Ukraine has been holding the line for a long time now, and can continue to do so.

------------------------

But never mentioned is that Ukraine is using other peoples money to hold the line.

Obviously we’re on Ukraine’s side.

Nom it isn't obvious at all that you (Dope), and Trump are on Ukraine's side.

But never mentioned is that Ukraine is using other peoples money to hold the line.

Oh yes, it's mentioned fairly regularly by Trump and y'all. And it's in the press. So we know and we don't mind at all spending whatever I, Dope, and you pay in tax on aid to Ukraine.

Nom it isn't obvious at al

He is. Your end-stage case of TDS makes you see a Russian behind every tree.

it's mentioned fairly regularly by Trump and y'all. And it's in the press. So we know and we don't mind at all

Of course you don’t. You have running water and electricity. It never crosses your mind that Ukrainians don’t.

We're not forcing them to fight. - 1pg

-------------

Yet you seem to be OK with Ukraine forcing the USA to send money for as long it takes. If the USA is not allowed to says no, then our
largess takes on a slight taint of extortion. I am not criticizing your support of Ukraine, but I do notice that your side ignores where the money is coming from.

Yet you seem to be OK with Ukraine forcing the USA to send money for as long it takes.

??????

That is a...unique...perspective. Is that what the RW propaganda machine is telling you? Seriously, Mike...

Ukraine is not forcing us to do anything. What I'm OK with is spending a few bucks to tie-down one of the three biggest enemies we have, that democracy has. They're spending their military, they're trashing their economy, and, potentially, Putin could be ousted if it gets bad enough. That last one is a bit of a long-shot, but if the economy gets bad enough, the common Russian person will take to the streets. As long as Ukraine is willing to bear the hardship of war, it is putting America first to supply them.

All without putting one American boot on the ground. A bargain, really.

I am not criticizing your support of Ukraine, but I do notice that your side ignores where the money is coming from.

They also ignore the fact that Z is running out of people. You don’t see Europeans volunteering to send their armies, either.

Obviously we’re on Ukraine’s side.
Wouldn’t it be better to get a cease-fire to let them rebuild and rearm? - Dope

I think the lefties position is built on the correct assumption that Ukraine will be able to rebuild and re-arm much faster the Ivan. So as the theory goes, with every passing year at war, the "Faster Rebuild" advantage accrues in Ukraine's favor.

What is not taken into account and undermines that strategy is the loss of thousands of lives on both sides for each month the war drags on. With 4X the population plus boots on the ground from N Korea and from Baltic clients, Russia is better positioned to ride out the dude shortage than is Ukraine.

>I>Oh yes, it's mentioned fairly regularly by Trump and y'all. And it's in the press. So we know and we don't mind at all spending whatever I, Dope, and you pay in tax on aid to Ukraine. - Lapsody

=======================

I know you know. Dopes recipe for Ukraine's defense is "guns and money, and dudes. When your side is arguing for continuing support, you talk about guns and money, but never the dudes.

So what is your strategy for keeping the dudes flowing along side of the guns and money?

So what is your strategy for keeping the dudes flowing along side of the guns and money?

You're extrapolating to infinity. Yes, Ukraine will run out of "dudes" before Russia does, all else being equal. Despite the unequal casualty rates (which strongly favors Ukraine). But you don't have to go to infinity. Or even five years. Within two, assuming Ukraine continues to get materiel from the West, Russia will be exhausted. Their economy will be a shambles (it's not great now). Their military capabilities will be further degraded. They will need this conflict to be over.

You don't need "dudes". You just need to encourage your enemy to give up and go home. Several examples of that, including 'Nam, Afghanistan (twice!), and pretty much all of the old colonial powers that no longer have colonies. They all resisted until the occupying/invading power just gave up and left.

Ukraine is not forcing us to do anything. = 1pg

--------------

If the USA cannot say "no" without being vilified, then we are being forced.

You're extrapolating to infinity. Yes, Ukraine will run out of "dudes" before Russia does, all else being equal. Despite the unequal casualty rates (which strongly favors Ukraine). But you don't have to go to infinity. Or even five years. Within two, assuming Ukraine continues to get materiel from the West, Russia will be exhausted. - 1pg

--------------

Your post is the first I have heard about any limit to the duration of our funding "obligation". Of course we could not put a two year sunset into the agreement, so we will have to behave as if our funding obligation is for as long as it takes.

Then when two years go by and the war is still active, if we try to step back then, we again will be vilified for lack of support. So there we are, two years later after spending another $400B, and another 200,000 brave soldiers have died, we are right back to where we are now.

Then there is this:

5 days ago KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — A deal to end the war between Ukraine and Russia "is still very, very far away," Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said

Yet you seem to be OK with Ukraine forcing the USA to send money for as long it takes.

Bow did that old commercial go?

“You can pay me now (to help Ukraine fight their invaders)…

or you can pay me later” (after Russia invades Latvia, Estonia Poland, Finland and Lithuania- and then, for sure there will be American troops involved).

I’d rather:
1. Assist a country fighting for its freedom by giving financial aid, primarily paid to US arms manufacturers. Wanna know how to increase US production capacity for artillery shells? Answer: fund the production of artillery shells.

2. Continue to degrade Russia’s warfighting ability.

“You can pay me now (to help Ukraine fight their invaders)…

or you can pay me later” (after Russia invades Latvia, Estonia Poland, Finland and Lithuania- and then, for sure there will be American troops involved).

I’d rather:
1. Assist a country fighting for its freedom by giving financial aid, primarily paid to US arms manufacturers. Wanna know how to increase US production capacity for artillery shells? Answer: fund the production of artillery shells.

2. Continue to degrade Russia’s warfighting ability. - Bill</>

===================

That sure is a long way of saying, "For as long as it takes."

That sure is a long way of saying, "For as long as it takes."

As long as it takes Russia to pull its troops back and acknowledge Ukraine’s borders (more favorably defined for Ukraine than they would be now)

If the USA cannot say "no" without being vilified, then we are being forced.

Nope. We can say 'no', and no one can do much about it. However, the rest of the free world realizes what I've been telling to you. So, they rightfully are calling us stupid for threatening to withhold support for Ukraine.

Your post is the first I have heard about any limit to the duration of our funding "obligation".

Firstly, it's not an obligation. It is just smart strategic thinking.

Secondly, you must not have been reading many of my posts (which is totally cool...you can read -or not read- whatever you like). I've been setting horizons based on actual data. In 18 months, Russia is going to be experiencing a severe hardware crunch. They're going to be out of stuff, and all their boneyards will have been picked clean. I gave the estimate of 2 years to allow for a little bit of error, and also for the effects that this will have on them.

But I do agree that we should not set publicly a time horizon. That gives Russia a target to achieve. If we say "indefinite", Putin likely will know he's screwed, and seek terms that both sides can live with.

If the USA cannot say "no" without being vilified, then we are being forced.

Oh, really, you are going to define being "forced" by being vilified. Well, how about this:

Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

You are adhering to Russian talking points and propaganda, and giving them aid, after already admitting they are a bad actor and Russia is an enemy. So YOU and Dope and LM are therefore traitors in the Constitutional sense, and, after due process, should be hanged.

Obviously we’re on Ukraine’s side.

Nom it isn't obvious at all that you (Dope), and Trump are on Ukraine's side.

It is quite clear that Trump is on Putin's side. That is glaringly obvious.

It is also clear that Trump’s cult is fully on board with surrendering to Putin. I have this mental image of Trump declaring Hokey Pokey day followed by 70 million Americans doing the Hokey Pokey dance all day long. He can make up any fact he wants-like Picard’s hologram.

You are adhering to Russian talking points and propaganda, and giving them aid, after already admitting they are a bad actor and Russia is an enemy. So YOU and Dope and LM are therefore traitors in the Constitutional sense, and, after due process, should be hanged.

Lulzies. What else is there to say other than:

Nobody hates like a liberal.

If the USA cannot say "no" without being vilified, then we are being forced.

Pearl clutching is so woke of you, BHM!

What happened to the good ol' MAGA "Fuck your feelings"?

I’d rather:
1. Assist a country fighting for its freedom by giving financial aid, primarily paid to US arms manufacturers. Wanna know how to increase US production capacity for artillery shells? Answer: fund the production of artillery shells.

2. Continue to degrade Russia’s warfighting ability.

My uncle's words constantly echo from the past... After VE day, we should have neutered Russia; defensive capabilities only, same as Japan.

Nobody hates like a liberal.

There is nothing wrong with hating ignorance.

There is nothing wrong with hating ignorance.

Ignorance of what?
Your support for the Ukrainians is merely performance art. You don’t really give a rip about anyone living there.

My uncle's words constantly echo from the past... After VE day, we should have neutered Russia; defensive capabilities only, same as Japan.

That was certainly Patton’s perspective.

Sympathetic as I am to that perspective, however, the Soviet army was a behemoth at that point. And it stood halfway across Germany.

Remember. On VE Day, the battle for Okinawa was still underway, and Saipan still lay in the future, as did the expected invasion of the Japanese home island. And the Manhattan Project, though showing promise, had not yet successfully tested an atomic bomb.

Large units of the Wehrmacht had just surrendered to Allied forces and some of their generals had begged the allies to join them in pushing back the “Soviet/Asian hordes”. Their entreaties were rejected.

Given what Roosevelt/Churchill/Eisenhower faced at the time, putting an end to the war in Europe to focus on defeating Japan was a wise choice.

It’s only the last 80 years of history that suggests they should have rolled the dice- a perspective that was unavailable to them at the time.

And it would have been a roll of the dice. There’s no guarantee we would have won that battle.

Your support for the Ukrainians is merely performance art. You don’t really give a rip about anyone living there.

Thank you for proving once again, that regardless of the subject matter, you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.

Thank you
You should be thanking me and the other righties for having the patience to put up with a collection of whackadoodles. Meantime, you and the other thespians can keep on puffing out your chests. Have you put up your virtue signaling yard sign yet? Or stuck a blue and yellow sticker to your forehead? Maybe consider a tattoo; it’ll last longer.

Your support for the Ukrainians is merely performance art. You don’t really give a rip about anyone living there.

I sent $1000 to the World Central Kitchen for Ukraine for Christmas, thus rendering your statement as ignorant as all your others.

I am now hoping to find a way to send money to help, um, get Putin to change his mind, or possibly fall out of a window.

So withdrawing support and letting Putin drop bombs on homes, schools and hospitals is your way of showing support for Ukraine?

So withdrawing support and letting Putin drop bombs on homes, schools and hospitals is your way of showing support for Ukraine?

It’s called “performative cheers for Ukraine while putting your money on Russia”.

I sent $1000 to the World Central Kitchen for Ukraine for Christmas, thus rendering your statement as ignorant as all your others.

Good for you. I’ve also donated money. Maybe you’re not the level of Master Thespian that some of the other goobs are.

Nobody hates like a liberal.

Nobody projects like a conservative...
Hatred and ignorance, (They always go together) is your brand.
Conservatives are the folks who brought us the KKK and slavery and Jim Crowe and the Southern Strategy and strict voter ID requirements, and the purging of voter rolls,
and lies about Haitian immigrants and nazi salutes etc, etc.
Heck, Donald Trump was endorsed twice by former KKK leader David Duke and by the "Crusader" the official newspaper of the KKK.

Also 6 weeks ago our economy was the envy of the world, now we have alienated all our allies, indiscriminately fired vital hard working Americans (many Veterans) and cut important programs resulting in our economy and reputation being driven into the ground.
And eggs prices are still going up.

So withdrawing support and letting Putin drop bombs on homes, schools and hospitals is your way of showing support for Ukraine?

Obviously it isn’t. Do you want a substantive reply, or are you one of those who likes to chirp from the sidelines? Your posting history suggests the latter.

I am now hoping to find a way to send money to help, um, get Putin to change his mind, or possibly fall out of a window.

Please let us all know of any ideas you have - I have been thinking about the same, but can't come up with anything that might make a difference.

Thanks,
Pete

Lulzies. What else is there to say other than:

Nobody hates like a liberal.

Might as well be a non response. Did you ever serve in any of the US Armed Forces?

Might as well be a non respo

You mean in response to your desire for somebody to come along and hang all of us?

Whatever. In what universe do you think violent threats against other people merits you anything other than a middle finger?

“ We do NOT fund Ukraine because we’re nice guys.

We fund Ukraine BECAUSE IT IS IN OUR BEST INTERESTS TO DO SO.

Dictators do not take one country. The take one country at a time.”

You’re shouting into the void because you’re assuming that the MAGA crowd finds dictatorship abhorrent.

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