Post New

snip
'Want to know why Mayor Eric Adams is panicking? The numbers are ugly. New York City has no shortage of social problems, but Biden's open borders crisis is really taking a bite out of the Big Apple.

Each illegal migrant costs NYC, over $10,000 a month.

New York City on average spends about $363 a day on each asylum seeker household receiving services in city shelters and emergency relief centers and is on track to spend a total of $1.4 billion by the end of the fiscal year in June, Office of Emergency Management Commissioner Zach Iscol said during a recent City Council hearing.

The cost for the 'asylum seeker crisis' could double to $2.8 billion in the next fiscal year, Iscol told the panel during a hearing last week. He said the city cannot maintain that support.'

'More than 30,000 newly arrived migrants are staying in city-run facilities. If those numbers continue to worsen, they'll eat up even more of the budget.'

https://www.frontpagemag.com/each-migrant-costs-ny...

snip
'Want to know why Mayor Eric Adams is panicking? The numbers are ugly. New York City has no shortage of social problems, but Biden's open borders crisis is really taking a bite out of the Big Apple.

First of all, the news reports here in NYC don't show a panicked mayor. And the New York Post, a conservative newspaper, notes that he's creating an agency to handle the migrant crisis and is asking for help from other mayors. He is also reported to be planning to resettle many migrants across the country. I'm sure Adams isn't happy about the migrant burden here, but he is coping with it, not panicking.

Second of all, regarding FrontPageMag.com as a source for reliable information....especially when it comes to anything involving migrants/immigrants....is not a good idea. It's not a news source but a political publication published by the super conservative, anti-immigrant David Horowitz Freedom Center.

From Wikipedia: "FrontPage Magazine, also known as FrontPageMag.com, is an American political website edited by David Horowitz and published by the David Horowitz Freedom Center. It has been described by scholars and writers as right-wing, far-right, and Islamophobic."

Here's an article from a sociologist who has written about racism in our society. In this piece he spells out how Horowitz's pan of his most recent book is filled with lies, including a supposed quote from the book that was actually a fake created by Horowitz.
http://historynewsnetwork.org/articles/38162.html

And another assessment of Horowitz's white nationalist goals:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-...

First of all, the news reports here in NYC don't show a panicked mayor. And the New York Post, a conservative newspaper, notes that he's creating an agency to handle the migrant crisis and is asking for help from other mayors. He is also reported to be planning to resettle many migrants across the country. I'm sure Adams isn't happy about the migrant burden here, but he is coping with it, not panicking.

I am a Native New Yorker, born and raised in the heart of Manhattan, edukated in the Black Board Jungle schools. I know NYC, and of course NYC being a liberal concave will speak well
of Mayor Adams and water down the true facts. The word gets out what is actually happening in NYC.
Resettle illegal aliens across the country? Good luck with that. So much for coping.
Have you ever given it a thought how the border towns and the people living there are coping?

Second of all, regarding FrontPageMag.com as a source for reliable information....especially when it comes to anything involving migrants/immigrants....is not a good idea. It's not a news source but a political publication published by the super conservative, anti-immigrant David Horowitz Freedom Center.

Yawn, stretch, hohum....As I said earlier the left wing rags and outlets also print the same headlines, even foreign news outlets such as Aljazeera print the same articles. Some though with a liberal slant will be a bit more gentle with the left politicians.
So every time you and commonone come up with the same nonsense I just laugh and know,
'gotcha', pushed your button with the truth.

I am a Native New Yorker, born and raised in the heart of Manhattan, edukated in the Black Board Jungle schools. I know NYC, and of course NYC being a liberal concave will speak well of Mayor Adams and water down the true facts.

Just so you know, LM......I was born in Virginia, but have lived in NYC since I was 1 year old. Raised 2 kids here. Been involved in community organizations that successfully cleaned up Washington Square Park and made the playgrounds safe. Also formed a block association for the block I lived on then (between the Park and 6th Ave) to cope (successfully) with several problems, including the violent, acting-out lesbian clientele that patronized a particular bar on my street. We eventually worked successfully with the police with this and with the Park issues......once we found ways to overcome their preference to ignore the problems.

As for my views of Eric Adams.....I did not vote for him in the primary, and only voted for him in the general election because he was the best of the worst. I think he's a lot better than diBlasio....but that doesn't take much.


So every time you and commonone come up with the same nonsense I just laugh and know,
'gotcha', pushed your button with the truth.

With "the truth"? Hah! You should only know.

pushed your button with the truth.

And I should add......

Recalling your faithful belief, stated a while earlier, that the Fox News people can be trusted for giving watchers the facts, and knowing how skeptical I've been of them for quite some time....I'll continue to trust my assessment of reality.

And don't get me wrong. I'm not downplaying the crisis at the border or within areas of the country bearing the weight. It's horrendous in so many ways, and it's not being tackled head on. It can't be done piecemeal, but needs a comprehensive overhaul that incorporates practicality, reality, logic, firmness, and compassion. And it's not going to happen overnight. But it seems to me that politics and political fears are getting in the way of developing plans that can really achieve something.

And it's not going to happen overnight. But it seems to me that politics and political fears are getting in the way of developing plans that can really achieve something.

It's not going to happen at all. Republicans want walls, and turning away refugees. Plus their businesses benefit from black market labor that has no recourse (i.e. can't call the cops because they'll be deported). Meanwhile, Dems can't agree on what they want (a very few want open borders, some think we're doing enough, others want fundamental change). Many forget that Obama was roasted by pro-immigration groups for being the "deporter in chief" because of the number of deportation during his 8 years. We've had all Dem government, and all Rep government, within the past 20 years, and no one did anything. Albaby has opined, and he's probably right, that the Dems don't want to expend political capital on the issue, having other priorities such as healthcare.

I think I know what needs to be done, more or less. No one is proposing anything remotely like that.

I think I know what needs to be done, more or less. No one is proposing anything remotely like that - 1pg

----------------------

There is little point <except feel good and virtue signalling> to agreeing who you want to allow in if you have no ability to exclude those <few> that you don't.

It's not that simple. We have to have a comprehensive plan, and we don't. If you just increase enforcement, that will do nothing. If you just change the rules (asylum, dreamers...whatever), that will not do much. We need to change our system to allow for migrant workers, to address dreamers, to penalize employers who don't use some sort of verification system (e.g. my former employer used the one that already is in place to verify eligibility for employment -it's my understanding Reps in particular hate this), asylum, and various other measures all at once. Once we address these various issues, then the only ones crossing the desert are going to be the bad ones...and it will be much easier to catch them if that flow is a trickle instead of a torrent.

That doesn't address people who overstay their visas, which actually is a bigger problem than people hoofing it across the desert. Employment verification would address most of that (i.e. can't work, then it's hard to live here).

' edukated in the Black Board Jungle schools.'

😳

I think I know what needs to be done, more or less.

Which is.....???

Very interested to hear your thoughts.

'edukated'

You do realized it was a joke considering my attending the NYC school system, don't you?

The stories I co

We need to change our system to allow for....

Yes. AND....we also have to make sure that the administrative and judicial positions to carry all of this out effectively and in a timely way have been put in place.

Which is.....???

Very interested to hear your thoughts.

Which I wrote before coming to the post with your views spelled out. So....ignore this request.

It's not that simple. We have to have a comprehensive plan, and we don't. If you just increase enforcement, that will do nothing. If you just change the rules (asylum, dreamers...whatever), that will not do much. We need to change our system to allow for migrant workers, to address dreamers, to penalize employers who don't use some sort of verification system (e.g. my former employer used the one that already is in place to verify eligibility for employment -it's my understanding Reps in particular hate this), asylum, and various other measures all at once. Once we address these various issues, then the only ones crossing the desert are going to be the bad ones...and it will be much easier to catch them if that flow is a trickle instead of a torrent.

That doesn't address people who overstay their visas, which actually is a bigger problem than people hoofing it across the desert. Employment verification would address most of that (i.e. can't work, then it's hard to live here). - 1pg

----------------

Agree with everything you say here. BUT, we need to know the enforcement to keep undesirables out or ensure detection if they discovered in. My idea would be a period of clemency during which the undocumented come out of the shadows and get some sort of mandatory greenish card that allows them to remain here unless and until they commit a felony. After some date, lack of credentials or possession of fake or stolen credentials results in assured detention, followed by swift and sure deportation.

My idea would be a period of clemency during which the undocumented come out of the shadows and get some sort of mandatory greenish card that allows them to remain here unless and until they commit a felony. After some date, lack of credentials or possession of fake or stolen credentials results in assured detention, followed by swift and sure deportation.

I have to say I'm surprised to hear this come from you given your conservative bonafides. This seems to amount to complete amnesty for those already in the country (absent bad behavior). This would seem to be a political non-starter.

I'm not disagreeing, frankly I have no better suggestion, I'm just surprised.

I never knew the Mayor and his city to be so anti immigrant and xenophobic.

We have lots of work to do, changing hearts and minds in America.

Who knows, immigrants might need UN Peacekeeper protection in NYC judging by the attitude of their Mayor.

I never knew the Mayor and his city to be so anti immigrant and xenophobic.

We have lots of work to do, changing hearts and minds in America.

Who knows, immigrants might need UN Peacekeeper protection in NYC judging by the attitude of their Mayor.

What are you talking about? Adams has been providing shelter for the immigrants who were bused here, and he's set up a bureau dedicated to helping/working with these immmigrants. Stop being so Adams-phobic and NYC-phobic.

Glad you responded. I find his missives confusing, and that latest one seemed puzzling. I'm not familiar with Adams, but I would have been surprised if a NYC mayor was anti-immigrant.

>>My idea would be a period of clemency during which the undocumented come out of the shadows and get some sort of mandatory greenish card that allows them to remain here unless and until they commit a felony. After some date, lack of credentials or possession of fake or stolen credentials results in assured detention, followed by swift and sure deportation.<<

I have to say I'm surprised to hear this come from you given your conservative bonafides. This seems to amount to complete amnesty for those already in the country (absent bad behavior). This would seem to be a political non-starter.

I'm not disagreeing, frankly I have no better suggestion, I'm just surprised. - Goofyhoofy

-----------------

Heh. You may also be surprised that I am pro choice.

bhm, a conservative enigma...

What are you talking about? Adams has been providing shelter for the immigrants who were bused here, and he's set up a bureau dedicated to helping/working with these immmigrants. Stop being so Adams-phobic and NYC-phobic.


Mayor Adams was having fits when the aliens started arriving by bus in NYC last summer.
Apparently someone in the hierarchy told Mayor Adams to cool it. He has since changed
his tune and put out the welcome mat.
I don't believe Adams is actually happy about it and just doing what he has been told to do.

snip
'NEW YORK -- A red state, blue state border war has erupted after Texas Gov. Greg Abbott sent dozens of migrants to the Port Authority Bus Terminal, taking advantage of New York City's right to shelter law as he fights with President Joe Biden over immigration policy.

Mayor Eric Adams is furious, CBS2's Marcia Kramer reported Friday.'

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/mayor-eric-ad...

I don't believe Adams is actually happy about it and just doing what he has been told to do.

Who gives a crap whether he's happy about it or not. He's doing the right thing, NOT the phobic thing ..... and that's what counts.

And I don't blame him for being pissed at Abbott for having sent the buses here in the way that he did. It was a very hostile gesture, clearly done to dump this in the midst of a blue city struggling with huge homeless and mental health problems. It would have been a whole different thing to have contacted other governors to try to work out sharing the responsibilities.

And I don't blame him for being pissed at Abbott for having sent the buses here in the way that he did. It was a very hostile gesture, clearly done to dump this in the midst of a blue city struggling with huge homeless and mental health problems. It would have been a whole different thing to have contacted other governors to try to work out sharing the responsibilities.

It brought attention to the plight of what IS happening at the border, the border towns and the people and farmers living at the border edge.

Biden's phony baloney visit to the border brought little or no help. Liberals/dems from Biden on down do not care only until it affects their town, you know....like NYC and Martha's Vineyard.

It brought attention to the plight of what IS happening at the border, the border towns and the people and farmers living at the border edge.

You really think that was a forceful and effective move that finally brought attention to the realities of the border horror show? Come on now. It has been fully obvious for some time. Abbott's move brought attention to himself, and did zero for efforts to help....truly help....the complex border inundation.


Biden's phony baloney visit to the border brought little or no help.

It clearly wasn't intended to bring help. What's going on at the border, and the varied forces behind that, require a concerted, bipartisan, top to bottom and well-implemented plan. Biden's visit was intended as a physical demonstration of his concern, directed at those who are convinced that he doesn't give a sh*t.

People who insist on seeing heartless attention-seekers as do-gooders support the problems rather than pressing for a real solution.

Biden's visit was intended as a physical demonstration of his concern, directed at those who are convinced that he doesn't give a sh*t.

And he did what besides promises? Illegals are still crossing the border.

snip
'JANUARY 13, 2023
Monthly encounters with migrants at U.S.-Mexico border remain near record highs
BY JOHN GRAMLICH
Monthly encounters between U.S. Border Patrol agents and migrants attempting to cross into the United States at the U.S.-Mexico border remain at levels not seen in more than two decades, according to the latest available government statistics. The recent influx of migrants at the southwestern border has been a key topic of discussion this week in meetings between U.S. President Joe Biden and his Mexican counterpart, Andrés Manuel López Obrador.'


https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2023/01/13/m...

"Encounters" means they were apprehended. As for "they keep coming", of course they will. Without comprehensive reform, that will never stop. For all its faults, the US is still attractive to a lot of desperate people.

Mayor Eric Adams is furious, CBS2's Marcia Kramer reported Friday.'

And well he should have been .... as I pointed out in an earlier post. What Abbott did was a hostile bit of grandstanding, instead of conferring with all of the country's governors to design a plan that would distribute the burden fairly for both states/cities and migrants until the politicians finally sit down together to develop and implement an effective, fair, and compassionate system to govern the border.

Biden's visit was intended as a physical demonstration of his concern, directed at those who are convinced that he doesn't give a sh*t.
****************
And he did what besides promises? Illegals are still crossing the border.

Oh....so you're criticizing Biden for not having single-handedly developed and gotten approval for and implemented an effective plan.....overnight?

"Encounters" means they were apprehended. As for "they keep coming", of course they will. Without comprehensive reform, that will never stop. For all its faults, the US is still attractive to a lot of desperate people.

Yes, and apprehension means arrested

'U.S. authorities made more than 2 million immigration arrests along the southern border during the past 11 months, marking the first time annual enforcement statistics have exceeded that threshold, according to figures provided by senior Biden administration officials Monday.

In August, U.S. Customs and Border Protection detained 203,598 migrants crossing from Mexico, the latest figures show, putting authorities on pace to tally more than 2.3 million arrests during the government's 2022 fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30. The total, which includes some people apprehended more than once, far exceeds last year's record of more than 1.7 million arrests.'

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/19/u-s-mexico...

Along with the desperate people entering America are criminals, gang members'well you know the list. Biden's open borders are making America unsafe. Just ask the people living along the border.
Comprehensive reform starts with Biden.

LurkerMom: U.S. authorities made more than 2 million immigration arrests along the southern border during the past 11 months...Biden's open borders are making America unsafe.

Reconcile 2 million arrests with open borders, please.

"Encounters" means they were apprehended. As for "they keep coming", of course they will. Without comprehensive reform, that will never stop. For all its faults, the US is still attractive to a lot of desperate people. = 1pg

=====================

Rhetorical question....

If comprehensive immigration reform was implemented just as you envision it should be, would the number of immigrants coming into the USA every year go up or go down from what it is now?

Reconcile 2 million arrests with open borders, please. - Commonone

---------------

Catch and Release.

Catch = arrest and hold long enough to issue a cell phone, assign a court date, and provide a plane ticket to the interior of the country.

And

Release = the immigrant hardly ever shows up for court date.

The release part is what makes the borders, for all practical purposes, open.

210,000 good Catholics !!
Shutting down Planned Parenthood is such a great achievment!
Praise the lord.... HIS will be done.

"Biden's open borders..."

The fact tht you call it "Biden's open borders" shows that you don't understand the problem (ignorance), don't care for a solution, and only care about repeating the ignorance your political masters feed you.

Democracy requires informed citizens. Your ignorance and blind dumb partisanship is contributing to the problem and helping hurt the country.

"Rhetorical question....

If comprehensive immigration reform was implemented just as you envision it should be, would the number of immigrants coming into the USA every year go up or go down from what it is now?"

Like everything surrounding immigration, that is a depends type of question.

Some things to consider.
1. It should be noted that in your rhetorical question you said "number of immigrants", not number of illegal immigrants. In any sane, realistic comprehensive immigration reform, it is quite likely that the number of legal immigrants will generally rise from where it is now. Decent comprehensive reform should generally drop illegal immigration though.

2. The biggest driver of immigration (both legal and illegal) is economic opportunity. People migrate to the USA because of economic opportunity. As long as there is economic imbalances between the US and its hemispheric neighbors, there are going to be people trying to migrate here (both legally and illegally). With that said, the President, or congress, or anyone in the US, can control what happens in our neighboring countries, so they cannot completely control the economic imbalances. Sure the President and congress can try and influence the economies of our neighbors, but it is generally out of anyone in this countries control.

3. Most of the nutty, Fox news viewership doesn't realize that in general, people immigrating to the USA is a long-term economic benefit. The nutty Fox news crowd is fed the racist propaganda that immigrants are here to sponge off society and are on welfare so they are a net negative. That is simply not true. Immigrating to a new country (legally or illegally) is something that people do not undertake lightly. It requires a lot effort and persistence. As a result, most immigrants are younger and generally more driven to succeed. They are looking for economic opportunities to succeed. Those are the type of people we should want in this country.

In general I think if there was rational comprehensive immigration reform, the number of legal immigrations coming into the country would go way up. The number of illegal immigrants entering would go way down because there would be less economic opportunity for an illegal immigrant versus doing so legally. Plus the penalties would be harsher and process of removing illegals faster.

"Catch and Release."

That phrase is the ole, nutty conservative propaganda spin for describing due process in the US.

"Catch = arrest and hold long enough to issue a cell phone, assign a court date, and provide a plane ticket to the interior of the country."</I.

That you even think this is a semi accurate description of what happens when someone is arrested for being in the country illegally shows you need much better sources of information.

"Release = the immigrant hardly ever shows up for court date."

Do you have statisitics on this or are you just mindlessly regurgitating something you heard on Fox?

Besides, if you want more people to show up in court, don't you think it would be better to give more resources to the legal process?

"The release part is what makes the borders, for all practical purposes, open."

So you don't believe in due process. Gotcha. Why would you choose to live in a country that has due process then?

They should go up. Legal Immigration solves a lot of tight labor market problems, expands the domestic market for goods and services, sparks new entrepreneurialism, invigorates cities, increases the workforce contributing to social security, and has generally been the life blood of American renewal.

The fear of immigrants has always puzzled me.

Catch and Release.
Catch = arrest and hold long enough to issue a cell phone, assign a court date, and provide a plane ticket to the interior of the country.
And
Release = the immigrant hardly ever shows up for court date.
The release part is what makes the borders, for all practical purposes, open.

Not that facts matter, but

Evidence Shows That Most Immigrants Appear for Immigration Court Hearings

Key Takeaway

Irrefutable evidence shows that over the past two decades the majority of immigrants have shown up for immigration court hearings. Rates of appearance increase when people have legal representation, calling into question the logic of detaining people in prison-like conditions when representation
https://www.vera.org/publications/immigrant-court-...

I could provide dozens more citations of studies that show the same thing. Here's one, not that it will have any more impact that the first:

11 Years of Government Data Reveal That Immigrants Do Show Up for Court
Due Process and the Courts

January 28, 2021 WASHINGTON'A new report released today examines 11 years of government data on the rate at which immigrants appear for hearings in U.S. immigration court. The report, 'Measuring In Absentia Removal in Immigration Court,' concludes that an overwhelming 83% of immigrants attend their immigration court hearings, and those who fail to appear in court often did not receive notice or faced hardship in getting to court.
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/news/11...

Perhaps you'd like to revise the statement 'hardly ever show up in court?' I expect not, but I have hope that facts might intrude on your argument. 83%! Seriously.

Democracy requires informed citizens. Your ignorance and blind dumb partisanship is contributing to the problem and helping hurt the country.

The trolls and bots don't care about facts or being informed. They don't care what you think about them or if it's obvious their responses are nonsense. They care about dominating websites to wear out informed posters who try to keep up with "a zone flooded with sh!t."

The joint forces of 2A, anti-abortion, white supremacists, etc only care about their goals. Amoral unity is the toxic plasma of their whackamole game.

Democracy requires informed citizens. Your ignorance and blind dumb partisanship is contributing to the problem and helping hurt the country.

The trolls and bots don't care about facts or being informed. They don't care what you think about them or if it's obvious their responses are nonsense. They care about dominating websites to wear out informed posters who try to keep up with "a zone flooded with sh!t."

The joint forces of 2A, anti-abortion, white supremacists, etc only care about their goals. Amoral unity is the toxic plasma of their whackamole game.
*********

What toxic, divisive, persona invective.

What does this have to do with a Democrat Mayor being anti-immigrant?

"Democrat Mayor" --- Do you not know the difference between a noun and adjective?

They care about dominating websites to wear out informed posters who try to keep up with "a zone flooded with sh!t."
The joint forces of 2A, anti-abortion, white supremacists, etc only care about their goals. Amoral unity is the toxic plasma of their whackamole game.

Have you forgotten the Motley Fool was left dominated, even by many of the TMFFools?
Have you forgotten the Political Asylum was overrun by the left with their insults and
nasty behavior?

The Atheist Board started out with opposing pov's but polite in their discussions.
Some of the lefty Fools from TMF have migrated here, have taken over and are starting the
same old nasty insulting crap.

Manlobbi, how about opening up a Board for Conservatives and right leaning folks as once was at TMF where Conservatives can post in peace without the insults and nasty comments from the left?

Manlobbi, how about opening up a Board for Conservatives and right leaning folks as once was at TMF where Conservatives can post in peace without the insults and nasty comments from the left?

We can add boards, but the best strategy is usually to place authors on ignore if there are insults or nasty comments.

As for left versus right, I find the distinction is simplistic. In the old definitions of left and right, the spectrum these days is more like moderate right (now called left) to extreme fanatic right (now called right). There are no actual left discussions on this board that I have seen thus far as they are effectively banned from our imagination.

- Manlobbi

We can add boards, but the best strategy is usually to place authors on ignore if there are insults or nasty comments.

Okay, goodbye. It was nice here for a while.

In the past people would be friendly towards each other with completely different political ideas, and discuss their ideas together. In the present, particular the US public environment, there can be a lot of rudeness between people with different political ideas, and I empathise completely with you for wanting that to disappear and extremely agree that such rudeness should be unacceptable.

In theory I'd prefer to have more political boards to artificially remove this redness, but rather, encourage people with opposing views to interact better.

Again, I would encourage everyone to discuss ideas together, but not attack each other or make insinuations. Discuss only the idea, and don't press, or dig, too much once you have tried to make a point continually without it being understood. Above all, be respectful to each other.

Finally, use the ignore feature (click the unhappy face) against posters being continuously rude. It is highly effective.

- Manlobbi

What toxic, divisive, personal invective.

Have you got a point to make? Are you going to advocate for fact-based discussion and civility?

Are you fed up with links to websites that thrive on "flooding the zone with sh!t"?

There are plenty of posters who will offer you lengthy responses to lengthy streams of Fox nonsense.

What does this have to do with a Democrat Mayor being anti-immigrant?

Now, I could waste time and cyberspace debunking the lie within your question, or politely invite you to suck rocks until such time as you ask an honest question.

I choose the latter.

What toxic, divisive, personal invective.

Have you got a point to make? Are you going to advocate for fact-based discussion and civility?

Are you fed up with links to websites that thrive on "flooding the zone with sh!t"?

There are plenty of posters who will offer you lengthy responses to lengthy streams of Fox nonsense.

What does this have to do with a Democrat Mayor being anti-immigrant?

Now, I could waste time and cyberspace debunking the lie within your question, or politely invite you to suck rocks until such time as you ask an honest question.

I choose the latter.
SANO
***********

Once again nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Mayor Adams squeamishness with immigration.

The above poster didn't address the issue - only intimacy with a rock.

Hey, no judging.....

he best strategy is usually to place authors on ignore if there are insults or nasty comments.
***************
Okay, goodbye. It was nice here for a while.


LurkerMom..... What astonishes me is how unaware you seem to be that you are a significant source of insulting, denigrating responses when another poster disagrees with your view. You make it very clear that anyone who disagrees with you and your news sources.......regardless of any verification presented that shows the source(s) you're quoting to be untruthful.....is pathetically unable to grasp reality.....simply sheep in the blind thrall of the left.

I didn't participate on any of the TMF boards that discussed political issues because I couldn't stand the self-righeous attitudes and platitudes and denigrations.....so you have no previous history with me. My experience of your insulting attitude stems from your responses to me and others on this board. Just because you're not emphatic in your denunciations as some are, and do it with more of a shoulder-shrug demeanor, doesn't make your denigrating remarks any less unkind or inappropriate.

Interesting. My perception of PA (the few times I ever visited) was that is was a right-wing insult machine. Though the left was not immune to casting aspersions. Basically a lot of people yelling at each other. Pointless.

And, not being one to want to live in an echo chamber, I tried posting to CF. I was very promptly told I was an idiot (except for ONE poster that actually tried to engage in conversation...I forget who it was now). Along with posts about how they couldn't wait for the revolution so they could "hunt liberals" legally (and I DO remember who said that).

And, as manlobbi just said, there isn't really anything that "left" on these boards (or in America). The Democrat party would be regarded as center-right in most of the world (with a few exceptions, like Sanders and AOC). I left the Republican party after 20 years because they had shifted so far right that I couldn't relate to them anymore.

Finally, use the ignore feature (click the unhappy face) against posters being continuously rude. It is highly effective.

- Manlobbi

I've blocked umm, don't need his going off the deep end with his bully diarrhea of the keyboard bashing me and other right leaning posters.
Problem is half of the topic being discussed is lost due to other posters replying to umm
and the conversation becomes nil.

I don't need a screaming banshee insisting I am wrong along with her insulting demeanor insisting my sources of information are nothing but lies due to it coming from conservative outlets. She ignores the fact multiple news sources, right, left, middle are reporting the same news topic.

I came to your site having the feeling of 'being back home' and enjoyed the conversations minus the rancor.

This is your domain Manlobbi, I have little to say as to what you hope it will become.
I know though I don't want to be a part of a morph TMF Political Asylum Board.

I wish you well and success with Shrewd'm

The above poster didn't address the issue - only intimacy with a rock.

The issue as presented was a partisan lie that does not merit a response beyond identifying it as such, and cordially offering a serving suggestion for a rock.


WILTONKNIGHT:
I never knew the Mayor and his city to be so anti immigrant and xenophobic.
to
What does this have to do with a Democrat Mayor being anti-immigrant?
to
Mayor Adams squeamishness with immigration.

Progress?

LurkerMom: I don't need a screaming banshee insisting I am wrong along with her insulting demeanor insisting my sources of information are nothing but lies due to it coming from conservative outlets. She ignores the fact multiple news sources, right, left, middle are reporting the same news topic.

But they're not reporting the news in the same way.

Your sources make false claims: Adams is "panicking", running around like a mad man, and has abandoned New York City's sanctuary status.

Or you selectively quote your source: "Mayor Eric Adams is furious, CBS2's Marcia Kramer reported Friday". But then you neglect to explain that the person Adams is furious at is Texas governor Abbott.

You could easily have quoted this from your own link: "Governor Greg Abbott is continuing to play with the lives of human beings. We think this is cruel, it's disgusting and it's pure cowardice," said Manuel Castro, commissioner of the mayor's Office of Immigrant Affairs.

A spokesperson for Adams called the move "an embarrassing stain on the state of Texas," but stressed that as a right to shelter city, he would welcome the asylum seekers with open arms.


You also wrote that "Liberals/dems from Biden on down do not care only until it affects their town, you know....like NYC and Martha's Vineyard."

But as NPR reported: After the unexpected arrival of nearly 50 migrants flown Wednesday into Martha's Vineyard, local organizations and community members have been providing around-the-clock support.

Florida governor DeSantis pulled a cruel stunt (the migrants weren't even from Florida, right?) and the people in Mass. came out to meet the migrants, feeding and housing them.


You can complain that your sources are ridiculed but generally you have questionable sources. Just run them through Media Bias Fact Check and read how and why they're questionable. Media Bias Fact Check doesn't have any axes to grind and doesn't play favorites.

Most people here are reasonable and informative. As this thread wandered, people have provided solid facts. Goofyhoofy addressed the myth of 'catch and release' with solid data. Others have addressed additional questions and concerns. And yes, some here have had their fill of false claims that have been repeatedly corrected and say so in no uncertain terms.

When people correct me over and over again with facts that I cannot refute except with extremely biased opinions or questionable sources I have to stop and say, "Well, I guess I got that wrong."

I have a SIL who liked to send me anti-vax messaging. At first, I replied with facts and links and evidence, encouraging her to read them. She'd reply with another conspiracy-based article. I'd reply with more facts. She'd switch sometimes to 5G and how it was going to give us all cancer. Eventually, I gave up.

She reminded me of this terrific John Cheever short story, "Goodbye, My Brother," about a man's brother, Lawrence, who sees the worst in everything. It ends like this:

"They left for the mainland the next morning, taking the six o'clock boat. Mother got up to say goodbye, but she was the only one, and it is a harsh and an easy scene to imagine'the matriarch and the changeling, looking at each other with a dismay that would seem like the powers of love reversed. I heard the children's voices and the car go down the drive, and I got up and went to the window, and what a morning that was! Jesus, what a morning! The wind was northerly. The air was clear. In the early heat, the roses in the garden smelled like strawberry jam. While I was dressing, I heard the boat whistle, first the warning signal and then the double blast, and I could see the good people on the top deck drinking coffee out of fragile paper cups, and Lawrence at the bow, saying to the sea, 'Thalassa, thalassa,' while his timid and unhappy children watched the creation from the encirclement of their mother's arms. The buoys would toll mournfully for Lawrence, and while the grace of the light would make it an exertion not to throw out your arms and swear exultantly, Lawrence's eyes would trace the black sea as it fell astern; he would think of the bottom, dark and strange, where full fathom five our father lies.

Oh, what can you do with a man like that? What can you do? How can you dissuade his eye in a crowd from seeking out the cheek with acne, the infirm hand; how can you teach him to respond to the inestimable greatness of the race, the harsh surface beauty of life; how can you put his finger for him on the obdurate truths before which fear and horror are powerless? The sea that morning was iridescent and dark. My wife and my sister were swimming ' Diana and Helen ' and I saw their uncovered heads, black and gold in the dark water. I saw them come out and I saw that they were naked, unshy, beautiful, and full of grace, and I watched the naked women walk out of the sea."

There is a proud Left.

Fist bumping the Saudi King after shouting "Khashoggi!" for years.

Spending record on defense and weaponry.

Being "tough on crime" in Washington DC.

Establishing corporate tax rates - lower than under W Bush.

Telling rail workers - to get back to work - while coddling wealthy I.T folks who couldn't be bothered to spread their deposits over multiple institutions.

Also, classifying Russia as the most severe threat, calling the 80's and having that foreign policy sent ahead in time.

Finally taking a stand on China - a far cry from the sweetheart trade deals given to China in the 90s, along with the "thefts" of American defense secrets, coincidentally while fundraising laws were being broken on behalf of the incumbent President. Now "Murica" won't sell certain tech to China and Murica might ban some Chinese social media.


Frankly, not a bad deal.

Hoping to see Biden say 'tear down this wall' one of these days too.

There is a proud Left.

Fist bumping the Saudi King [after shouting "Khashoggi!" for years].

Fist-bumping the Saudi King....after Khashoggi's assassination.....sure sounds like Jared Kushner to me. And not exactly the "left" that you're putting down.

Fist-bumping the Saudi King....after Khashoggi's assassination.....sure sounds like Jared Kushner to me. And not exactly the "left" that you're putting down. - Sheila

--------------------------

Actually that was Biden.... Note NPR source is impeccable and cannot be questioned

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2022/07/15/ap2219...

Fist-bumping the Saudi King....after Khashoggi's assassination.....sure sounds like Jared Kushner to me. And not exactly the "left" that you're putting down.

Aw, c'mon. Who among us wouldn't fist-bump the Saud royals if the result was a $2 billion dollar Saudi cash into our corporate slush fund? Kushner worked his White House advisor job like a Bunny Ranch hooker.

*Cue the "but Hunnnnnter......" chorus.

Fist-bumping the Saudi King....after Khashoggi's assassination.....sure sounds like Jared Kushner to me. And not exactly the "left" that you're putting down. - Sheila

--------------------------

Actually that was Biden.... Note NPR source is impeccable and cannot be questioned


Looking up dates, I realize that I incorrectly remembered the timing. Khashoggi was assassinated in Oct 2018, and the 2 Trump visits to Saudi Arabia....first Jared's surprise visit for talks with the crown prince and then the formal visit.....occurred in 2017. There were strong misgivings about this at the time, and the consequences continue.

So I'm talking about what occurred during Trump's presidency, with Jared Kushner's visit to the crown prince and apparently giving him the names (that he got from intelligence briefings) of those Saudi notables who were opposing his usurpation of being next in line to head the monarchy there. After Jared's unannounced meeting and private talks with the crown prince, the crown prince began jailing those opponents, and also bragging that Jared Kushner was in his pocket. Then Trump and Jarek and Ivanka formally visited Saudi Arabia. And......that relationship appears to underlie critical (and questionable) financial support from the Saudis now.

You can read about all of it in these links:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-saudi-crown-pr...

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/21/jared-kushner-...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/02/12...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/massive-saudi-in...

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-731612

Aside from that....Biden's visit isn't a simple yes/no situation. It reflects the complexities highlighted by China's just having played the intermediary in brokering the re-establishment of relationships between Saudi and Iran. This tremendously strengthened China's image and reflects its entry into Middle East politics. And Biden needs to maintain U.S. presence and influence.

No chorus.

Just facts.


Under Bush or Trump. - "our friends the Saudis"

After Biden calls the King a "murderer" - he bumps fists and begs for oil.

Luckily, China is brokering a goodie between the Saudis and Iran - good for America :)

(The above is just plain facts -- -- that is unless you are into "alternative facts" and a red hat)

"Khashoggi!!!!" - yeah, ok.

Ok, gotta go copy your catholic post, put in another religion - and post it in a good place. Stop interrupting.

Quibble. Last I knew, we didn't need Saudi oil. We are a net exporter of oil. We could embargo them without any effect on us.**



**With the understanding that there will always be effects economically, but we won't have gas lines or anything like in the 70s.

Manlobbi, how about opening up a Board for Conservatives and right leaning folks as once was at TMF where Conservatives can post in peace without the insults and nasty comments from the left?

The far right, as exemplified here on this board, have no tolerance for differences...of opinion, race, culture, etc.

Mayor Adams is the one whining about immigrants in his city.

Democrats are the ones militarizing the border.

France is doing Hijab Bans and harassing Muslims - and condemned for it by the International Community.


The Intolerance is more on the Left.

For Right? Vote Dem.

The far right, as exemplified here on this board, have no tolerance for differences...of opinion, race, culture, etc. = ges

=======================


The lefties, as exemplified here on this board, have no tolerance for differences...of opinion, race, culture, etc either but they just don't see it, (or can't see it), or (can see it but can't admit it to it).

What is the problem with seeing opinions you opposes. We are all free to ignore opinions we don't we don't agree with. If you are too fragile to even see them, then you can ignore the poster. If we do see them, we can call them lies, ridicule them, overtly challenge them, but should never censor them, IMHO opinion of course.

ON TMF.....

LOOTP was Liberal lean.

PA was Conservative lean.

Liberals couldn't stand all the PA posts on "best of" so they made a concierted effort to swarm the PA board -- and that was fine.


Then Liberals did it to CampFIRE - got some posters banned.


Then Liberals kept doing it in PA- got some banned but luckily, one of them knew the intolerant Stalinistt Putin-ite Liberals would do that so he had many backup accounts ready----and then decided to keep stirring the FA hornet's nest.

Then - after the boards got BANNED the Economics board - was having political discussion.

But the Liberals kept FA'ing again - so someone decided to help them keep the FA action alive.

Then that board got banned.

Now the Stalinist Liberals are here, whining about opposing viewpoints, and whining about being challenged while it's them who is in power.

And - it is still - Mayor Adams being such an ImmigrantPhobe, and it is Democrats militarizing our border and it is Liberals, on this board, who openly cited the need to get his fruits and veggies picked on the cheap - as reason to favor immigration.

Wow.

Forget Pride Flags. the Plantation Flags are the new rainbow here.

Now the Stalinist Liberals are here, whining about opposing viewpoints, and whining about being challenged while it's them who is in power.

Yep, for sure. And bringing with them their underhanded snide flaming remarks.
Take fr instance that screeching banshee who cannot reply without hurling her spit balls at
fellow Shrewd contributors with opposing pov. lol at anyone who thinks I care after spending over 20 years of the same at the PA. Water off a duck's back.

Yep, for sure. And bringing with them their underhanded snide flaming remarks.
Take fr instance that screeching banshee who cannot reply without hurling her spit balls at
fellow Shrewd contributors with opposing pov. lol at anyone who thinks I care after spending over 20 years of the same at the PA. Water off a duck's back.

They never learn. Never have, never will.

Here's the secret.

Over at the Fool moderators were predominantly left wing, led by the Aruba guy. He'd happily erase posts and ban any right leaning poster. libs knew that and gleefully used it to censor opposing viewpoints.

But there's a problem when you rely on somebody to fight your battles for you: you grow soft.

Weak. Unable to think for yourself.

The result is what we see here: a slew of people who can't even take mild opposition to what they say. All they have in response is "You source bad!!", profane insults, strawmen, and outright distortions.

Ok honey, paint your toe-nails. Wanna know a secret just between us girls at the slumber party?

Shortly before these people got their boards banned.... and they kept having my posts pulled, having me banned, etc.

I had cultivated (2) very "committed" people from an Islamic chat forum - they had usernames and passwords (courtesy of someone....).

Also I had stirred up a few people via YouTube comments - 3 of them were about to get handles...these were posters that would make Donald Trump appear to be Centrist.

Together this was going to raise all sorts of hell on that board .... but alas, the intolerant Liberals - got themselves banned and their city was burned down.

But would've been fun.

LurkerMom today: lol at anyone who thinks I care after spending over 20 years of the same at the PA. Water off a duck's back.

Throw back Thursday! May the Forth be with you.

LurkerMom:March 13 2023: "I've blocked umm, don't need his going off the deep end with his bully diarrhea of the keyboard bashing me and other right leaning posters.

Problem is half of the topic being discussed is lost due to other posters replying to umm
and the conversation becomes nil."I came to your site having the feeling of 'being back home' and enjoyed the conversations minus the rancor.

This is your domain Manlobbi, I have little to say as to what you hope it will become.
I know though I don't want to be a part of a morph TMF Political Asylum Board.

I wish you well and success with Shrewd'm

Not the shortest self-exile. Not the longest.

Over at the Fool moderators were predominantly left wing, led by the Aruba guy. He'd happily erase posts and ban any right leaning poster. libs knew that and gleefully used it to censor opposing viewpoints.

Lol, good ol Tony. Aruba was friends with my son and thought I was his friend too. He used to email me often advising me what I should and should not post being we were at opposite end of the political pole. Didn't want to FA my posts. When the handwriting was on the wall the Boards will be closed I thought why not and posted his twitter account link and more. Much Trump hate and lots Biden love. I did not hear back from him except he dropped me as one of his favorites. LOL

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