DOPEI asked if anyone was up for direct NATO involvement. Things like no-fly zones or even NATO troops. No takers. Bill initially said yes but quickly walked it back.

I read about 20% of your posts - maybe. I don't remember this one, so I'm thinking other people may do/remember the same thing. I've stated previously I'm not against using American troops, but I thought we weren't near that yet. I'm not against NATO involvement, etc., but we aren't near that yet. I envision at some point, as Russia withdraws, there will be a NATO force in the Ukraine. One thing you haven't realized yet Dope is that Russia is a bad actor and has no intention of keeping any cease fire, or to cease hostilities. If you play surrender monkey now, you perpetuate the conflict, and high school kids in the future will be saying - what were they thinking? Of course you can't trust Putin. To get Russia to cease hostilities, you have to show Russia that we can bleed her dry, cause negative growth. If Russia realizes that tif she invades/attacks, there will be another stagnant negative growth period, she will still arm up, but will seriously consider the consequences of a megative invasion.

Another thing you need to come to grips with - we need allies. WE NEED ALLIES! Quit treating them badly. (Emphasis mine).